Bad News!!

~Neevil~ said:
Yes, it was so profound. :D jk

I agree with what inkspot said. Maybe part of the reason this film was given a bad score was of its religious content or suggestions. I don't know how anyone can give the film or books any score lower than a perfect 10. :D
 
Aravis of Archenland said:
I agree with what inkspot said. Maybe part of the reason this film was given a bad score was of its religious content or suggestions. I don't know how anyone can give the film or books any score lower than a perfect 10. :D
I think...well.... I refuse to give an opinion at this time. So, no comment :D
 
It's funny cuz in England where they have a religion class in school, the CON books, at least LWW, is on the recommended reading list -- and lots of kids who read it don't even realize it has religious overtones. Yet in the USA (I believe it was in Florida), where we are so scared of religion, they tried to keep LWW out of the schools because of separation of church and state! That's crazy to me.

WG, I don't think anyone had said Christians were more persecuted than anyone else (although worldwide that is a possibility what with Sudan and China). But it's clear to anyone with an unjaundiced eye that the American media is happy to bash Christianity whenever and wherever they can -- that's all LM was saying. Not that we get bashed worse than anyone else, although of course we do get routinely bashed much worse that Muslims or atheists as far as I can tell: the US media is bending over backwards to make Islam a religion of peace, and they adore atheists of any kind.

But LM's statement had nothing to do with Muslims and atheists, so what PK was saying is that your dragging Muslims and atheists into it was typical of the way people of a certain mindset try to discredit truths about Christianity: not by showing that the original statement is wrong ("no Christians are not fair game!") but by confusing the issue by dragging into it things with no bearing on the original statement ("atheists have it worse!!!"). It sounds as if you have made a valid argument, but all you have done really is make a parallel one.

Does this help?
 
Perhaps the actual people in America do not bash Christians more than any other group, but, like you said, the media sure does. And different parts of the country are more or less open to Christianity. I used to live in New Jersey, and up there, Christianity is not accepted very well. Now I live in the South, and here, almost everybody goes to church. Btw, did you know that "seperation of church and state" is not even in the Constitution? I thought that was interesting...
 
*Stifling laughter*

WG, is it standard fare for you to challenge the maturity of those who challenge your vapid reasonings (as well as engage in ad hoc pop psych), or just here on TDL? I have twisted nothing whatsoever, as Ink has pointed out. I simply noted that your comment was a non-sequitur. A proper response to the statement, "It is open season on Christians" might be, "No, it isn't," or "Yes, it is," or "Want to back that up with some hard data?" or even, "Let's remember that other groups have it tough, too."

But you did none of that, WG. You began your retort by repeating LM's statement in the form of a question, a standard rhetorical device that more than suggests that a negative response is the correct one. This is how the English language works, "as I and a number of others" have observed. To punctuate this, you followed up with a statistically dependent statement about atheists being the "most hated" group in the U.S., and threw in other groups as well. Of course, this has nothing whatsoever to do with what LM said, since she (as I already pointed out) did not even address the relative "hatedness" of atheists, Muslims, or any other group for that matter; for all we know from her original statement she may pine day and night and weep over lit candles for such groups, and on the side took time to mention that she has noticed Christian bashing is increasingly in vogue.

You really do miss the point, WG. I don't have a problem with you pointing out that people of other faiths are mistreated, and that we all ought to be more kind to each other. That's a fine point. It just doesn't have a single thing to do with LM's statement, and is therefore a non-sequitur--it doesn't follow, and is therefore logically flawed. Or can't you tolerate a statement as simple as hers about the plight of persecuted Christians standing on its own without making a derisive and qualifiying comment?

But then again, when you miss the significance of a series like this...

WG said:
Christians are fair game? Did you know that the most hated group in the U.S. are atheists? Muslims get a pretty bad drag through the coals as well as do many other groups.

WG said:
I merely stated, without boring statistics, my opinion and the opinions of a few studies about Atheists being THE MOST hated group.

Neevil said:
My thought of the day: 76.3% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

WG said:
Neevil - well put!

...then perhaps I am barking up the wrong tree here.
 
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Let's see if I can clear a bit of misinformation up, here.

I posted, originally, "Originally Posted by WG
Christians are fair game? Did you know that the most hated group in the U.S. are atheists? Muslims get a pretty bad drag through the coals as well as do many other groups."

Yes, I asked if Christians are fair game. The review of the Narnia movie made no mention about it being rated poor because of the soundtrack and special effects as being Christian related. I have seen very little attack on Christianity. Yes, there are a few who are ridiculous enough to just attack "willy-nilly" because they disagree -much like what a few do in here as well toward those of other groups, namely the two I mentioned. In almost ALL these cases, the information was not accurate. Is there a disagreement with this?

Next, I had fun with Neevil with the claim about statistics - personally, I found it humorous. Did you not find it so? How would that be insulting to what was posted in here, let alone those who are posting?

Yes, I have a bit of an "esoteric" view on a number of religions, including Christianity. When the theme asks about one's opinion about that particular issue, I state it how I see it, or how I have learned about it from objective sources, not CNN, the New York Times, or National Inquirer. Because I mentioned that "MAYBE this may have been A instead of B", does that make me eager to create an argument? Am I putting down B because I can see it in another way? I do not believe so.

Many times I have been asked to substantiate the facts I have posted here. When I have, either the sources were either insulted (because they are not Arabic, they can't know what Islam is about) or ignored completely, with the theme being changed to another. Why is that? And this is from someone in their 50s? Where is the maturity on this? I do not know. I am also in this age range and personally, I have learned that acting in a mature manner, instead of sticking out one's tongue or thumbing one's nose at something which proves a point is much more preferable to creating a positive, communicative environment which promotes growth in understanding.

As I posted to Parthian in PM, sometimes, language is a difficulty. To the western world, when someone makes a comment, and the response is "So?", that infers indifference or dismissal of the statement made, as if it were not important. In my culture, it means "Ah, is that so? I did not know that." The difficulty with much of what is going on, both with this and many other examples, too many to mention, is that when one cannot hear the tone, one cannot tell intention. Therefore, I say to anyone and all who have felt "insulted" for whatever reason, "MY INTENT WAS TO NEVER INSULT NOR DEMEAN WHAT ANYONE HAS POSTED. I MERELY STATE MY PERSPECTIVE ON THE ISSUE." If this is unclear to you, please let me know.

In closing, may I say that, if you EVER have a problem with anything I say, I am mature enough to listen to any and all. Yes, you may disagree. Fine! I do not expect ANYONE to agree with my perspective. In the same manner, you have little right to expect me to agree 100% with you, either. If you wish to believe just your eyes and ears, and not listen to the sources of information and misinformation appropriately, that is your choice. Just know that, if I say "That is not correct - it is xxxx", I have no malice, but compassioned reason to say so. (A simple example is of how Islam is a violent religion because of the terrorism is mostly heard about as being Muslim - Again, might as well call Christianity a religion of racial bigotry because the KKK claims they are Christian. We know otherwise, but you refuse to see that the terrorism is NOT of those who are really Muslim, but just act as the KKK does - on their own accord, not according to the true teachings.)

Enough said? Again, if you disagree, agree, or are indifferent, but want to say something to me, don't go whining to the moderator, but act in a mature manner and confront me, either in public or PM. I am more than happy to listen.

Peace to you all.
 
No argument! It seems that others have this idea they can bring up unrelated issues - I was just answering it so it would, hopefully drop.

Now, back to our show.
 
Wendygirljp said:
Let's see if I can clear a bit of misinformation up, here.

I posted, originally, "Originally Posted by WG
Christians are fair game? Did you know that the most hated group in the U.S. are atheists? Muslims get a pretty bad drag through the coals as well as do many other groups."

Yes, I asked if Christians are fair game. The review of the Narnia movie made no mention about it being rated poor because of the soundtrack and special effects as being Christian related. I have seen very little attack on Christianity. Yes, there are a few who are ridiculous enough to just attack "willy-nilly" because they disagree -much like what a few do in here as well toward those of other groups, namely the two I mentioned. In almost ALL these cases, the information was not accurate. Is there a disagreement with this?

Next, I had fun with Neevil with the claim about statistics - personally, I found it humorous. Did you not find it so? How would that be insulting to what was posted in here, let alone those who are posting?

Yes, I have a bit of an "esoteric" view on a number of religions, including Christianity. When the theme asks about one's opinion about that particular issue, I state it how I see it, or how I have learned about it from objective sources, not CNN, the New York Times, or National Inquirer. Because I mentioned that "MAYBE this may have been A instead of B", does that make me eager to create an argument? Am I putting down B because I can see it in another way? I do not believe so.

Many times I have been asked to substantiate the facts I have posted here. When I have, either the sources were either insulted (because they are not Arabic, they can't know what Islam is about) or ignored completely, with the theme being changed to another. Why is that? And this is from someone in their 50s? Where is the maturity on this? I do not know. I am also in this age range and personally, I have learned that acting in a mature manner, instead of sticking out one's tongue or thumbing one's nose at something which proves a point is much more preferable to creating a positive, communicative environment which promotes growth in understanding.

As I posted to Parthian in PM, sometimes, language is a difficulty. To the western world, when someone makes a comment, and the response is "So?", that infers indifference or dismissal of the statement made, as if it were not important. In my culture, it means "Ah, is that so? I did not know that." The difficulty with much of what is going on, both with this and many other examples, too many to mention, is that when one cannot hear the tone, one cannot tell intention. Therefore, I say to anyone and all who have felt "insulted" for whatever reason, "MY INTENT WAS TO NEVER INSULT NOR DEMEAN WHAT ANYONE HAS POSTED. I MERELY STATE MY PERSPECTIVE ON THE ISSUE." If this is unclear to you, please let me know.

In closing, may I say that, if you EVER have a problem with anything I say, I am mature enough to listen to any and all. Yes, you may disagree. Fine! I do not expect ANYONE to agree with my perspective. In the same manner, you have little right to expect me to agree 100% with you, either. If you wish to believe just your eyes and ears, and not listen to the sources of information and misinformation appropriately, that is your choice. Just know that, if I say "That is not correct - it is xxxx", I have no malice, but compassioned reason to say so. (A simple example is of how Islam is a violent religion because of the terrorism is mostly heard about as being Muslim - Again, might as well call Christianity a religion of racial bigotry because the KKK claims they are Christian. We know otherwise, but you refuse to see that the terrorism is NOT of those who are really Muslim, but just act as the KKK does - on their own accord, not according to the true teachings.)

Enough said? Again, if you disagree, agree, or are indifferent, but want to say something to me, don't go whining to the moderator, but act in a mature manner and confront me, either in public or PM. I am more than happy to listen.

Peace to you all.



Well, let me throw in my ten cents before we get this thread back on topic, which was about the original criticism of the movie...that Narnia was voted the worst movie, worst title, etc.

I SUGGESTED that the movie had been given this so-called bashing because of its strong Christian content. If you don't live here in the USA, you're not going to fully understand that there IS a liberal bias and prejudice towards Christians and those people who take a more conservative stance in politics, and some Christians do.

When I first became a Narnia fan, I was mostly unaware of its parallel with Christianity and the Bible, but I soon became quickly aware of its great popularity ( as CS Lewis works are in general) with Christians worldwide, but primarily in the USA. I think a reviewer or a film critic would have to be aware of those parallels. And all you have to do is turn on the tv...the majority of the media is liberal and not very kind to Christians or their views.

So anyways...let's keep the debate to the Socratic forum, and concentrate on just how DUMB it was to name Narnia as a worst film and title!!
 
Keeping on the subject -

Why the organization stated that the title was bad, I do not understand. As for the technical aspect - bad special effects, I will admit they were not anything "spectacular", nor was the soundtrack - both, TO ME. Douglas Trumbull's work back in the 1970s was more spectacular, to me. Yes, the animation in this movie was good, but nothing spectacular.

About the bias against this movie because it might be Christian in theme backing, what about King Kong? Was it not also rated as poor in the technical area, yet I do not believe it has a Christian theme to it.

Yes, it has been seven years since I have lived in the U.S., but has it really changed that dramatically in those seven years? Do you have any specific examples how the media is "liberal" - and what is so wrong with being liberal vs. conservative? Again, this is NOT an attack, but I would like to know, seriously.
 
Wendygirljp,

I sense that this argument is going to go on and on, and if I had the power to do so at this point, I would close this thread and move a part of it to the Socratic section. Maybe you should tune into magazines like TIME, NEWSWEEK, and CNN just to see how liberal the media in the US really is. I'm not going to continue this argument here because it's so off topic it's totally ridiculous now.

You just said you didn't understand WHY the organization said the movie was bad. And I responded, as others did, with an POSSIBLE answer, which all you try to do is turn into some twisted debate when it was merely SUGGESTED that the movie was given a bad name because of its Christian and religious content.

If you can't handle possible answers to questions, then maybe you shouldn't keep asking them.
 
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You posted, "If you can't handle possible answers to questions, then maybe you shouldn't keep asking them."

I can accept the possible answers, but it appears, when I pose some OTHER possible answers, it is others who cannot handle these answers. Then, there is the issue of what is "possible" vs. what is "probable". What you claim is no more than possibility. Without knowing the people who made these comments about your favorite movie, you have no probability base.

I still do not know how you define "liberal". However, if you wish not to communicate in this, that is fine. All I was doing was asking questions as to why you thought so, so that I could understand your thinking. However, maybe you see my actions as some other "possibility", which it is not.

The only thing I am seeing in this thread is people getting very, very upset because some other folks have said they don't like your favorite movie. I do not KNOW their reasoning, but I have found, when people "guess" why someone does what they do, most of the time, they are incorrect in their guessing.

I quit. This nonsense of hostility is too tiring.
 
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WG, if you want examples of liberal media bias or to discuss the liberal media bias in the USA, please go to:

http://www.narniafans.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1506

The discussion starts out with a hatchet job the NY Times did on CS Lewis, but the last post I added today with one story I can remember of how the media blasted conservatives through spurious reporting. I am sure, others can think of other instances.

So, to talk liberal media bias and Christian bashing, go to that thread.

To talk about why LWW was voted worst everything, continue here.

WG, even you admit that Narnia's special effects and so forth were "not spectacular," but does that mean they were WORST? What reason can there be for Narnia to come up WORST in so many categories when in fact it cannot possibly have been worst in everything?

It seems to me, the media and Hollywood industry just wants to make everything Christian seem bad.
 
I'm not sure if there's just a misunderstanding because of language differences or because of a refusal to see things as they really are. In any case, this thread should probably be split. I was going to post a thread in the Socratic section about how the media treats Christians and Christianity in the US!!
 
Yah, check out the thread in my post above. There's the media bias topic. I think maybe in the USA we use that term "liberal" and we all know what it means politically, but it has become divorced from its real meaning, which is generous, you know.
 
Um, okay. So it's safe to say we're back on topic and we agree that anyone who writes a review or even dares to say Narnia was a bad movie with the worst title/worst ANYTHING doesn't know what he or she is talking about :D
 
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