Does Susan go to the "New Narnia"?/Whatever happened to Susan?

I didn't suggest that there's no hope for Susan. Of course there is! There is hope for all of us. What I said is that I fear Susan actually made a decision to walk away from Narnia and Aslan. The way Susan's actions are described in the book clearly supports this idea. She made the decision, hence my fear that she may have been lost. We'll never know for sure.
 
I think that though Susan is lost when all the rest of her family including her parents end up in Narnia she to eventually gets there. I am reminded of how many times in my life and still to this day lose my way.

However a great writer (Max Lucado) once wrote:

At first I didn’t recognize him. I guess I was expecting someone in a flowing frock with silky-white hands. But it was he. The lion. The Judean Lion. He walked out from among the dense trees of theology and ritual and lay down in a brief clearing. In his paw was a wound and in his mane were stains of blood. But there was a royalty about him that silenced even the breeze in the trees.

Bloodstained royalty. A God with tears. A creator with a heart. God became earth’s mockery to save his children.

He also (Lucado) reminds us that wherever we are, no matter how far we we have strayed, no matter how low he have become we need only "Look to the Cross, to find our way home."

I thank GOD and Aslan for that. No hope for Susan some of you have suggested? I can only reply if there is no hope for Susan then we're all doomed.

May Aslan walk with you all of your days my Brothers and Sisters of Narnia until we all met in Narina and Aslan's Country.

FOR NARNIA and FOR ASLAN!
That was very lovely, Defender. I didn't see you post before, and now I think you are quite wise. Welcome to TDL. :)
 
That was very lovely, Defender. I didn't see you post before, and now I think you are quite wise. Welcome to TDL. :)

Thank you very much and it is so nice to finally meet you. I have read many many of your posts. I find each one unique and have walked away learning something new or about myself from each one I have read.
 
Thank you very much and it is so nice to finally meet you. I have read many many of your posts. I find each one unique and have walked away learning something new or about myself from each one I have read.
Awww, thank you! A writer always wants to hear her words are making a difference. Check out my blog I am doing for Lent, www.jesusandjaxyworld.com for more of my inane babbling about the love of Christ.

Now back on track, for me I am of the mind that Susan did come back to her love for Narnia and Aslan. Sometimes it just takes a while for very grown-up people to realize the beauty in being a kid again.
 
I don't know if this has all ready been said but I think that Lewis left Susan's fate to the readers imagination. I also think he was warning readers to not get caught up in worldly things and wanting the approval of the world. At least that is what I saw in Jill's comment about Susan only being interested in nylons, lipstick, and parties and in Polly's comment about Susan spending all her time trying to reach a certain age and when Susan got there spending the rest of her time trying to stay that age.
 
THERE'S HOPE! THERE'S HOPE!!!!!

You have no idea what I'm talking about, huh? I should just calm down and start from the beginning. okay.

Well, I was searching the forums when I bumped into this. I read the topic, and a memory just popped into my mind. As all of you may know, Wikapedia is not the world's number one reliable source, by there is a page talking about Susan. Everything in there seemed to be quite correct and accurate. Here's what it said (I don't know how to put quotes in the miiddle of the paragraph, so I have to type it out):

Quote from the Wikapedia page of Susan Pevensie, in the section The Last Battle:

In the Last Battle, Susan is conspcious by her absence. Peter says that she is"no longer a friend of Narnia" and (in Jill Pole's words) "She's interested in nothing now-a-days except for nylons and lipsticck and invatations." Similarly, Eustace Scrubb quotes as her saying "What wonderful memories you have! Fancy that you are still thinking about all of those funny games we used to play when we were children."and Polly Plummer adds, "She wasted all of her school time wanting to be the age that she is, and she'll waste all of the rest of her life trying to stay that age. Her whole idea is to pace onto the sillest life of one's time and stop there for as long as she can." Thus, Susan does not enter the real Narnia with the others at the end of the series. It is left ambigous, however, wheter or not Susan's absence is permanent, espcially since Lewis stated somewhere that:

"The books don't tell us what happen to Susan. She is left alive in the world at the end, having by turning into a conceited young woman. But there's plenty of time for her to mend her ways and perhaps she will get into Aslan's Country in the end... in her own way."

[End of Quote]
 
Last edited:
Of course - that's always been a possibility. Remember what Aslan says to Edmund and Lucy at the end of Dawn Treader - that the reason they were brought to Narnia was that they might meet Him there, that ultimately they could know Him in their own world. The goal is getting to know Aslan wherever He is - and there are many ways of doing that. Susan didn't enter Aslan's Country through the Stable Door, but that doesn't mean she never got there.
 
At the end of Gone With the Wind, the deceitful and self-centered Scarlett O'Hara finds that she really did love Rhett Butler and as he was leaving her she begged him to stay. He tells her with a trace of regret, "Frankly my dear, I don't give a d..." and walks out. Scarlett is horrified, grieved, but finally decides she'll go home to Tara and she'll get him back. After all, "Tomorrow is another day!"

They asked Margaret Mitchell why she didn't let Scarlett definitely get Rhett at the end of the book and she said that after all the dirt she pulled she didn't clearly deserve him, so she left it up to the reader to decide. Whatever you read into it is so...definitely...for you.

I see Lewis doing the same thing with Susan. If you believe she made it into Aslan's Country, she made it, and for the reasons you cite. And vice versa.
 
Yes. Probably she opened her eyes when she saw her herself as she was during tLB, a young conceited woman. Maybe somehow, during her time in OUR world, she finds Aslan again, and/or realized what she has been doing is wrong.

I know some people who are like this (minature Susans)-or used to anyway. My friend E used to be one of them, but after a horribe incident on FB and found out that her "friend", B, teases her behind her back, she stopped hanging out with them. I suppose sometimes people don't realize something they're doing something bad until tragety strikes or an incident involving them occurs. Hopefully she will open her eyes, and see the real world.
 
Whenever the 'problem of Susan' is discussed it's always assumed that she is entirely in the wrong and the other Friends of Narnia are entirely in the right. But is it really as black and white as that?

The trouble is we hear of Susan's estrangement entirely from the perspective of the Seven Friends and don't know her side of the story. It's clear there has been a major disagreement between her and the others but is the reason for that actually lack of belief on Susan's part?
 
Whenever the 'problem of Susan' is discussed it's always assumed that she is entirely in the wrong and the other Friends of Narnia are entirely in the right. But is it really as black and white as that?

The trouble is we hear of Susan's estrangement entirely from the perspective of the Seven Friends and don't know her side of the story. It's clear there has been a major disagreement between her and the others but is the reason for that actually lack of belief on Susan's part?
Good point. We should be able to assume that at least the elders, Digory and Polly, would know what they were talking about, but it is sort of unfair for Polly to say Susan wasted her time at school wanting to be the age she is now -- Susan was guilty of nothing but a little fear in her visits to Narnia, and we have every indication that when she reined as a queen during the Golden Age, she was every bit as good a royal as her siblings.
 
The key operative word here is "FRIEND" of Narnia.

I passed someone in the hall a moment ago that is not my friend. That does not mean I hate them, or that I would be adverse to striking up friendship. It just means that currently we are not friends.

Which is pretty much what Susan and Narnia stood during The Last Battle.

Does it make me a bad person that I don't ask the name of every person that comes within voice range? Does it make me a bad person that I don't linger at the drive through window to ask the cashier her favourite colour? No. Just so many people, and only so much time and attention.

SHOULD Susan have been a friend to Narnia? Yes, I would say she should. Now take my previous illustration...the guy I passed in the hall. Let's say I found out that he and I were going to share an office. Wouldn't it be expected of me that I would interact with him more than just navigationally (as in not bumping into him)? Of course. Susan was given the coveted title of Queen of Narnia. That forged a relationship, one that Susan let lapse of her own volition. Was that wrong? YES.

I have more or less a good reason to pass some stranger on the sidewalk without making an impassioned plea to be their BFF than I would for telling my own mother that I didn't have any reason to hate her but, well, why should she be the one I choose to love as family...

Susan had a reason AND AN OBLIGATION to have feelings for her adopted country. The fact that she did not do so is a discredit to her.

That said, on the other hand, she had no antipathy toward it. She and Narnia drifted apart the way some husbands and wives do. And that's sad, but it's also less than hate.

Yes, I fondly hope Susan got over her problems and reconciled herself to Narnia. On the other hand, I doubt she actively turned against Jesus.

Which seems to beg the implied question...if she's good enough not to end up in some version of Hell, wouldn't she be able to enter the Narnian part of paradise from wherever she got her government issued halo? Of course.
 
Whenever the 'problem of Susan' is discussed it's always assumed that she is entirely in the wrong and the other Friends of Narnia are entirely in the right. But is it really as black and white as that?

The trouble is we hear of Susan's estrangement entirely from the perspective of the Seven Friends and don't know her side of the story. It's clear there has been a major disagreement between her and the others but is the reason for that actually lack of belief on Susan's part?

Yes, the only evidence we have are the comments made by the Seven Friends towards the end of The Last Battle. We just don't know why Susan turned away from Aslan and from Narnia. C.S.Lewis himself left her fate open. She may have remained estranged, in which case she probably never rejoined her family in Aslan's Country. However, it is equally possible that, following the tragic loss of her family, she did come to her senses, repented and ultimately found her way back to Aslan.

Good point. We should be able to assume that at least the elders, Digory and Polly, would know what they were talking about, but it is sort of unfair for Polly to say Susan wasted her time at school wanting to be the age she is now -- Susan was guilty of nothing but a little fear in her visits to Narnia, and we have every indication that when she reined as a queen during the Golden Age, she was every bit as good a royal as her siblings.

On the whole, yes, with the possible exception of her involvement with Rabadash.
 
Last edited:
Let's not forget something here: these are literary figures, not real people. In the hands of a master like Lewis, they are all more than just characters, they are types - each represents an example of how each man responds to Christ. Peter is the Faithful Leader, Edmund is the Repentant Sinner (a Matthew figure, if you will, or perhaps a Paul), Lucy represents the Beloved Disciple. We can find aspects of all these characters all around us, and even within ourselves.

Susan represents the Foolish Disciple, and Lewis does a masterful job of portraying her just sympathetically enough - especially in the early books - to let us see her in our own hearts, if we have the honesty to look and the eyes to see.

Ink, you comment:
Susan was guilty of nothing but a little fear
This is inaccurate: Susan was not "guilty" of fear because you cannot be guilty of an emotion - emotions have no moral component. What you can be guilty of is how you respond to it. Remember Aslan's rebuke to Susan when they first met in Caspian - "you have listened to your fears." Not "you have felt fears", but that she had listened to them, rather than listening to Aslan's voice (as Lucy did). And her listening to them was what caused her to behave as she did: petulant, self-centered, bossy, and mulish. When Aslan rebuked her, it wasn't for feeling fear, but for responding as she did - in faithlessness.

This is the theme that underpins the final discussion of Susan's fate by the Seven Friends behind the Stable Door. When reading the description of her behaviour, anyone who knows anything about human nature could see that her main motivator was fear - which she'd shown a proclivity toward from the first of the Chronicles. It may have displayed as other things - condescension, snobbishness, aloofness, whatever - but the root was fear. Of what? Probably a number of things: aging, death, the opinions of others, rejection, almost anything. The point is that the fears goaded and drove her, just as they goaded her on the walk from Glasswater to Aslan's How. Her sin was not being afraid, but letting fear rather than faith govern her.

Is there hope for her? Only in repentance of her fears. This is the beauty of characters as types - the character can switch types and still be true. In Lion Edmund starts out as a Judas, but after he has his talk with Aslan and is reconciled to his family, he is restored. Thus he ends up more like a Saul. So long as Susan remains a Foolish Disciple, living out of fear rather than faith, she will remain estranged from Aslan. But if she turns and refuses to be driven by fear, she can return home. I think that's why Lewis left the question open.
 
The first time I read the Last Battle, I was surprised by Susan’s fate, too. She seemed like a really sweet person, and I liked the practical streak that she had. I also related to her sense of fear in tense or new situations, since a lot of books don’t have people being scared during adventures, but I think that a fair number of people in reality would be, even if they had to overcome those fears in order to succeed on their quest.

In LWW, Susan the Gentle would seem like such a perfect candidate for admittance into Aslan’s country. I mean, she was one of those Aslan chose to be Queen of Narnia, and she was also one of the two people He chose to accompany Him on His journey to sacrifice Himself on the Stone Table. That’s comparable to being one of those at the foot of the Cross when Jesus was Crucified, and, Susan being with Aslan when He rose from the dead also means that she was present at the Narnian equivalent to Jesus’s resurrection in the tomb. Of all people, then, we would expect Susan to understand how powerful Aslan is, and how He is capable of saving everyone, and how He can bring triumph out of tragedy. Yet, in LB, we see that she doesn’t even believe in Narnia or Aslan. I guess that can be a sobering reality check for people who sometimes say or think things like, “If I could have been there when Jesus made the blind see or rose from the grave, I would believe,” because Susan was there for Aslan’s resurrection, and she didn’t have faith. Clearly, nothing—no miracle—can be strong enough to make someone determined to doubt believe.

I guess that brings us to the question of whether Susan was determined to doubt. I think that events in PC and the comments of other characters in LB support the argument that, at least as of the end of the Narnia series, Susan was determined to doubt. In PC, we see that Susan, by her own admittance, thought that she saw Aslan, but she didn’t want to follow Him because she was afraid. Contrast this with Peter, who, while he was wrong not to listen to Lucy when she claimed that she had seen Aslan, genuinely did not see Aslan and probably would not have been afraid to follow Aslan if he had seen Aslan. Peter’s problem was that he didn’t see Aslan; Susan’s was that she saw Him and then tried to convince herself, out of fear of what following Him would mean, that she hadn’t seen Him. That indicates a person who is willing to give into her fears and create doubts in her own mind even though, in the past, her experiences demonstrate that she has ample reason to believe.

I also suspect that events at the end of PC might reinforce the separation that she was beginning to feel toward Aslan during her second trip to Narnia. Susan might have felt betrayed and hurt when she was told that she wouldn’t be able to return to Narnia, so, as a defensive mechanism to, in her mind, spare herself further pain, she might have decided to embrace the more superficial elements of this world (nylons, lipstick, etc.) instead of sitting around with her siblings and rehashing old Narnia tales. To me, we see hints of her orientation with the more superficial aspects of this world coming out at the end of PC. When she and Peter explain to Lucy and Edmund that they won’t be returning, it is Peter who tells the younger ones that it’s all right they (Susan and Peter) won’t be coming back to Narnia and that they (Edmund and Lucy) will understand that when it is time for them to leave Narnia. On the other hand, Susan’s concern is of a more practical nature—she just tells the siblings where they can find their school clothes to change into so that they won’t look out of place at the train station they’ll be returning to. From that, we really can’t make a definitive statement about how well Susan has accepted not being able to return to Narnia. However, based on the descriptions of her behavior in LB, I feel that she might have had difficulty dealing with the fact that she wouldn’t be able to return to Narnia, and she might have dealt with that by focusing only on very practical, worldly matters.

Here I should probably say that Susan’s mistake, in my opinion, wasn’t her wanting to grow closer to Earth, per say, because, if Aslan’s instructions to her and Peter were at all reminiscent of those He offers to Edmund and Lucy at the conclusion of VotD, He might very well have advised Susan and Peter, “You must begin to grow closer to things of your own world.” Her mistake, I think, is in wanting to grow close to the wrong things of this world. She doesn’t want to engage in meaningful relationships with people on Earth. She doesn’t want to volunteer or find a job that helps other people. She doesn’t want to go out and enjoy nature on the weekends. All she wants to, by the sound of it in LB, is make herself look fashionable and behave in a way that will allow her to be popular. Aslan would have wanted her to live in the world but not be of the world, but based on the account of her conduct in LB, she seems to have chosen to be of the world and not just to live in it. She also chose the things of this world that would draw her farther away from Aslan, rather than closer to Him. That is her error, and I think it stems from being willing to listen to the fears and doubts that we see beginning to chip away at her in PC.

As to her fate after LB, I don’t think that she will get to the “New Narnia,” because by the end of LB, it seemed like all the inhabitants of the “New Narnia” were moving farther in and farther up to a heaven where all the new versions of all the worlds seemed to come together. I think that was the country Aslan was referring to in VotD when He told Lucy and Edmund that there were ways into His country from all worlds. I think that when a world ends and all the righteous of that world join the new version of that world, all the people in that new version are lead by their world’s Jesus up to that heaven where all the righteous people from all the new worlds departed live in eternal bliss. I do feel that it is possible that Susan could find her way to that country through Jesus, but I think that she would spend time with her parents in the New Earth on the way, and then she would, when our old Earth ended, join her siblings in the paradise where the righteous of all worlds are united. To us, that may seem like a long time for the Pevensies to wait for reunion, but I think, to those outside the constraints of time as we know it, it could feel like no more than an eyeblink.

I think that the deaths of her parents and siblings provide Susan an opportunity to look at her life, repent for her sins, and seek to reform herself. Her grief has the potential to drive her to Jesus as a source of hope and salvation. However, there is also the equal and opposite possibility that her loss will turn her against God. The feelings of hurt, betrayal, and resentment that she may have developed at the end of PC as a result of being told that she wouldn’t be returning to Narnia might intensify. Again, Susan has the chance to choose whether she will listen to her fears and doubts, or whether she will overcome them through faith. That, I feel, is why Lewis decided to leave her fate open-ended at the conclusion of the series.

So, yes, there is hope for Susan, but there is also the danger of what might happen to her if she does not repent and reform herself.

As for what I would do if I were writing a story about what happened to Susan, I would probably want to put her back onto the path of salvation. I would like to give her friends and a boyfriend who were actually a lot more loving and accepting of who she was as a person (not of the mask she pretended to be with her lipstick and nylons) than she would have thought imaginable. I would have her breaking down in her grief before them, and feeling like she was going to lose all her popularity as a result, only to discover that her friends and boyfriend are happy to have more of a glimpse of the real her and want her to show that side of her more, because they like it more. I would like for Susan the Gentle to develop meaningful, rather than superficial relationships, with the people of this world. I think she would make a great mother and wife, and that she could, if she wanted, do a wonderful job organizing charity events. She could put her practical instincts to brilliant use furthering God’s kingdom in such ways. It is entirely possible that God had more work for her to do on Earth, and that’s why she didn’t die with her siblings.
 
I would absolve Susan of any wrongdoing in the Rabadash affair. As she said herself, he behaved completely differently in Tashbaan than he did in Cair Paravel. Susan was guilty of nothing more than naivety.
 
I would absolve Susan of any wrongdoing in the Rabadash affair. As she said herself, he behaved completely differently in Tashbaan than he did in Cair Paravel. Susan was guilty of nothing more than naivety.

Yeah, I don't think Susan did anything wrong in the Rabadash affair. She was perhaps naive when she assumed that the nice face he put on when courting her in Cair Paravel was his real self, but, if anything, that argues for an essential innocence and purity of heart which is not condemnable. Once she sees his true personality back in Tashbaan, she tells Edmund quite clearly that she does not wish to be wed to Prince Rabadash, and Edmund (quite a good judge of character and policy) is quick to support her decision. In fact, to me, the fact that Susan doesn't want to marry Rabadash even though he is the heir to a great empire is proof that at that time, she wasn't as focused on popularity and other superficialities. She was focused on the goodness of her heart and the goodness of other people's hearts. She wanted a meaningful relationship with any potential fiance, and that's not a crime in my book.
 
As I mentioned before we never see Susan's side of the story. What strikes me about that passage in TLB is how judgemental both Jill and Polly are, the very two people who knew Susan least well.

It has to be said that neither of these characters are exactly unbiased. Jill is actually very realistically written by Lewis here; that's exactly how a girl of Jill's age in that period would react to an older girl showing an interest in fashion and socialising, with a scorn based largely on fear of an adult world she knew she would soon be expected to enter. As for Polly, she was raised in the Victorian age when all but the mildest forms of frivolity were frowned on and make up was only worn by actresses or prostitutes - and to the Victorian mind there was often little difference between the two. Polly criticises Susan for wasting all her school time in frivolity, but how much is that assessment influenced by her Victorian prejudices?

I can't help wondering if Polly and Jill's hostile attitude is caused by Susan's estrangement from the Friends of Narnia or is actually one of the causes of it.
 
One theory that has not yet come up, but I feel is WORTHY OF CONSIDERATION:

That "Friend of Narnia" is more considered an honour than an allegiance. Much like some kid whose irresponsible acts during seniour year meant that they WOULD be a high school graduate but not allowed to attend graduation.

In other words I don't think they were saying--or implying--that she was hell bound. Rather that she was not going to waltz into Aslan's Country with a martyr's palm branch and a gold chain.

My two cents.
 
As I mentioned before we never see Susan's side of the story. What strikes me about that passage in TLB is how judgemental both Jill and Polly are, the very two people who knew Susan least well.

It has to be said that neither of these characters are exactly unbiased. Jill is actually very realistically written by Lewis here; that's exactly how a girl of Jill's age in that period would react to an older girl showing an interest in fashion and socialising, with a scorn based largely on fear of an adult world she knew she would soon be expected to enter. As for Polly, she was raised in the Victorian age when all but the mildest forms of frivolity were frowned on and make up was only worn by actresses or prostitutes - and to the Victorian mind there was often little difference between the two. Polly criticises Susan for wasting all her school time in frivolity, but how much is that assessment influenced by her Victorian prejudices?

I can't help wondering if Polly and Jill's hostile attitude is caused by Susan's estrangement from the Friends of Narnia or is actually one of the causes of it.

It's true that we don't get to see Susan's side of the story. After PC, we only get a brief mention of her going to America because her mother thinks she'll benefit more from such a trip than either of her younger siblings were (and it's possible Susan might have developed more of an interest in nylons, lipstick, and parties on a trip to America if one of Mrs. Pevensie's goals was to have her daughter learn a bit more about polite society in preparation for the adult world) in VotD. Then, in LB, as you point out, we only really get an account of what goes on from the remaining Friends of Narnia, noticeably Jill and Polly.

I think that the fact that Polly and Jill are more judgmental is probably a factor of the fact that they know Susan less well than any of the others. I can't really remember a time that would necessitate Susan meeting either Jill or Polly, so it's entirely possible that they could even be getting most of their information about her secondhand from the complaints that the other Pevensie siblings might have made about her in casual conversation. The people who know and love Susan the best (Peter, Lucy, and Edmund) make it clear that Susan is no longer a friend of Narnia, but they seem to feel more sorrow at this fact than Jill or Polly do (especially more than Jill does. Polly's comment could be read in a more sympathetic light than Jill's could, in my view.)

I do think that Jill was realistically written when it comes to her reaction toward Susan. I always saw Jill as more of a tomboy, and Susan as more in touch with typical girl interests like fashion and socializing, so I feel like Jill would naturally be inclined to view the way that Susan spends her time with some disdain or distaste.

I also feel that Polly, having grown up in a different era, would be a little skeptical of things like nylons and lipstick. She went through two world wars and the depression in between, so I think that she would probably not be disposed to frivolities in fashion, and, if a girl is raised in the Victorian era (when even table legs were covered to preserve modesty), she would probably have a different idea of what type of dress is appropriate for a young lady. That sort of generational gap might account for some of the divide we see between Polly and Susan. Another thing to consider is that Polly remained unmarried, so she, like Jill, might not have been a fan of parties or fashion. Polly's comment could reveal that she wasn't wild about the kind of socializing forced on young ladies of status during the Victorian era in which she was raised.

It is possible that Jill and Polly's attitudes toward Susan's interests might have exacerbated Susan's distance from Narnia and Aslan. I do think that Susan's focus on fashion and popularity must have been excessive, because it is sufficient for the all just Aslan to keep her out of the New Narnia at least as of the end of LB. However, I don't think that Susan's interest in fashion or in socializing is inherently sinful any more than Jill's interest in woodcraft is. I think that if Susan had chosen to use her interest in socializing to forge meaningful relationships with people rather than superficial ones or if she had used her sense of fashion to provide clothes for the needy, she might have been welcome in the new Narnia, assuming that she maintained her faith in Aslan. It is possible that if she uses her talents and her interests for good and she regains her belief in God, she will be reunited with her siblings.
 
Back
Top