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WarriorSatyr
Member
So, now that The Last Jedi is out, what does everyone think of it?
Personally, I liked it. I have a few notes, but they're kind of spoiler-y and I lost the code for the invisible font.
Personally, I liked it. I have a few notes, but they're kind of spoiler-y and I lost the code for the invisible font.
WarriorSatyr
Member
I didn't really see that in it. It very much did break away from the old trilogies, but in a way that was more a passing of the torch, I felt.
Aravis Kenobi
New member
I'm only upset because of what Disney did with the EU (i.e. trashed it completely) when there was so much better material already in existence.
My reactions are mixed, but 90% negative. Even Force Awakens was better than TLJ and that's a lot coming from me, when I didn't love it at all. I'll probably have to watch TLJ again to fully enunciate my feelings...but I disliked it. Strongly.
After this movie, I feel like Hayden Christensen's performance as Anakin is forgivable over Kylo Ren's emotional state in these films...
tirian_son_of_erlian
Active member
A delightful, intriguing and spirited film. An adventurous pace but doesn't take itself TOO seriously. A surreal but satisfying conclusion. A welcome chapter to the Skywalker saga, right up there with the Original Trilogy!
Personally, I was happy with EVERY decision they made in this one. Yes, they turned things upside down. Like with "Rogue One," risks were taken. But, as one fan expressed concern over on theforce.net, "The Force Awakens" seemed to take itself a little too seriously. Rian is a brilliant director. "The Last Jedi" shines. I can understand folks having mixed reactions. But the surreal aspects of the film aren't much different than, say, Anakin falling a mile through Coruscant in the "Attack of the Clones" bounty hunter chase, without a scratch. While I loved the prequel trilogy at the time, it's certainly left a bad taste in my mouth. And my love for the old school style has grown considerably with the sequel trilogy. This latest installment captured the playful, corny aspects of what Star Wars is all about. I had followed several spoilers as the project progressed, and was particularly delighted with Leia's graceful treatment.
I'm not sure what there is to complain about. Folks on here certainly have respectable and differing opinions. On the other hand on theforce.net , legions of "dark side worshipers," as I harshly dub them (you can often tell who they are by their dark/"Darth" usernames) might be wallowing in self-pity following Snoke's treatment, which I thought was yet another highlight of the story's hope. Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher really delivered and were both given healthy screen time. The parallels to the original trilogy were there but in a different way than with The Force Awakens. In Episode 7 the parallels were everywhere and woven artistically and subtly throughout the film. In Episode 8 the parallels are overt and often comical but nostalgic nonetheless.
It's great to see how well Abrams and Johnson are working together and it's now clear to me why Kathleen Kennedy prefers their superior work. The old questions still unanswered or the new ones created are now less nagging and are simply fun to ponder.
I'm curious as well to know what others like or dislike about the film and why? To be fair, yes I would have liked to see more of R2D2 and Chewbacca. The actions scenes looked at times a tad unpolished, but I thought this visual style lent familiarity to the Original Trilogy. A few classical elements of a Star Wars film weren't there in the way I expected. I'm 35 and went to see the film with a buddy of mine in his forties, his wife and two sons. We all saw "The Force Awakens" together opening night as well. We must have been the target audience because we we're absolutely lovin' it!
Personally, I was happy with EVERY decision they made in this one. Yes, they turned things upside down. Like with "Rogue One," risks were taken. But, as one fan expressed concern over on theforce.net, "The Force Awakens" seemed to take itself a little too seriously. Rian is a brilliant director. "The Last Jedi" shines. I can understand folks having mixed reactions. But the surreal aspects of the film aren't much different than, say, Anakin falling a mile through Coruscant in the "Attack of the Clones" bounty hunter chase, without a scratch. While I loved the prequel trilogy at the time, it's certainly left a bad taste in my mouth. And my love for the old school style has grown considerably with the sequel trilogy. This latest installment captured the playful, corny aspects of what Star Wars is all about. I had followed several spoilers as the project progressed, and was particularly delighted with Leia's graceful treatment.
I'm not sure what there is to complain about. Folks on here certainly have respectable and differing opinions. On the other hand on theforce.net , legions of "dark side worshipers," as I harshly dub them (you can often tell who they are by their dark/"Darth" usernames) might be wallowing in self-pity following Snoke's treatment, which I thought was yet another highlight of the story's hope. Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher really delivered and were both given healthy screen time. The parallels to the original trilogy were there but in a different way than with The Force Awakens. In Episode 7 the parallels were everywhere and woven artistically and subtly throughout the film. In Episode 8 the parallels are overt and often comical but nostalgic nonetheless.
It's great to see how well Abrams and Johnson are working together and it's now clear to me why Kathleen Kennedy prefers their superior work. The old questions still unanswered or the new ones created are now less nagging and are simply fun to ponder.
I'm curious as well to know what others like or dislike about the film and why? To be fair, yes I would have liked to see more of R2D2 and Chewbacca. The actions scenes looked at times a tad unpolished, but I thought this visual style lent familiarity to the Original Trilogy. A few classical elements of a Star Wars film weren't there in the way I expected. I'm 35 and went to see the film with a buddy of mine in his forties, his wife and two sons. We all saw "The Force Awakens" together opening night as well. We must have been the target audience because we we're absolutely lovin' it!
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Honza
Member
tirian_son_of_erlian
Active member
AK would be best to answer but from my understanding EU stands for Expanded Universe and represents the numerous novels and other media following the release of the Original Trilogy, thus dating back as far as the early 80s. This extensive collections tells, amongst many other things, the story of Luke's offspring. From my understanding the authors who contributed to the EU focused mostly on this later time period until the release of the prequel films (1999-2005) at which time fiction filling in earlier time gaps exploded. Many fans consider all of this canon. When Disney acquired Lucasfilm in late 2012 they announced plans for a sequel trilogy and the disappointing (to many) news that "all previously released expanded universe content would be declared non-canon to the franchise." (taken from Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_expanded_universe). I never really got into these stories so it didn't have as much of an impact on me. The best I can do is chuck it up to a PU (Parallel Universe).
Aravis Kenobi
New member
Pretty much it in a nutshell. There were things I'd hoped to see from the EU in the new trilogy (i.e. Leia being a Jedi, Luke being married...Han and Leia actually being happily married instead of divorced/fighting, etc.). I've been sore at Disney ever since Clone Wars was cancelled, personally before its time. they should have at least allowed a full production of season 6 and let the show wind down to right before episode 3, as Dave Filoni I believe originally intended.
But since I'm in the minority about not liking TLJ, I'm keeping my mouth shut. It only seems to cause a fight. I haven't really liked these films since TFA. Rogue One was the only bright spot in the last 3 films released, mainly because I felt like it was more true to Star Wars than TFA or TLJ.
tirian_son_of_erlian
Active member
Well, your opinion matters. I'm probably in agreement with a lot of what you're thinking anyway. Rogue One is the best recent Star Wars film by far, as much for its brilliant storytelling as for its breathtaking cinematography.
To be fair, there are things about The Last Jedi that might not work, though I'd like to see the film again to give them a second chance. My friend calls Kylo Ren a dead end, and I don't find his arc very compelling. I could care less which way he goes in Episode 9. Finn, while funny, doesn't steal the show a la Han Solo. Fairly predictable Star Wars has become. However, I thought they took that notion and at least made fun of it a bit in this latest installment. The tension between Rey and Ren is ridiculously comical; the speed with which Snoke and the dark side are resisted overstate what the audience has been wanting to say for a while now: "let's move on from these recycled themes." And in many ways I feel like that's what the film does. Sure, I missed some heavy sword-swinging and droid moments, but there are at least 7 other films to recapture that, and I'm sure Abrams will round things out quite nicely with the sequel to the sequel trilogy.
Anyway, my critique may vary considerably from yours AK or anyone else's, but I genuinely want to know why some fans were disappointed and I'll let whatever comments you have breathe and not dissect them. I'm sorry again about the whole elimination of the EU. Perhaps you had hoped they'd incorporate many of those established story lines but in a way that was still engaging and unexpected?
To be fair, there are things about The Last Jedi that might not work, though I'd like to see the film again to give them a second chance. My friend calls Kylo Ren a dead end, and I don't find his arc very compelling. I could care less which way he goes in Episode 9. Finn, while funny, doesn't steal the show a la Han Solo. Fairly predictable Star Wars has become. However, I thought they took that notion and at least made fun of it a bit in this latest installment. The tension between Rey and Ren is ridiculously comical; the speed with which Snoke and the dark side are resisted overstate what the audience has been wanting to say for a while now: "let's move on from these recycled themes." And in many ways I feel like that's what the film does. Sure, I missed some heavy sword-swinging and droid moments, but there are at least 7 other films to recapture that, and I'm sure Abrams will round things out quite nicely with the sequel to the sequel trilogy.
Anyway, my critique may vary considerably from yours AK or anyone else's, but I genuinely want to know why some fans were disappointed and I'll let whatever comments you have breathe and not dissect them. I'm sorry again about the whole elimination of the EU. Perhaps you had hoped they'd incorporate many of those established story lines but in a way that was still engaging and unexpected?
Copperfox
Well-known member
>>> But since I'm in the minority about not liking TLJ, I'm keeping my mouth shut.
You're not alone, Aravis! I _detest_ what I call "The _Least_ Jedi." It stinks to the Rim and back.
There was no _need_ to have Luke Skywalker be a useless whiner for 95 percent of the movie.
Does anyone remember the Lone Ranger film that featured Johnny Depp as Tonto? They made the Lone Ranger be _absolutely_ useless for 95 percent of the movie. Then, almost at the _very_ end, they finally tossed us a little token morsel of the Lone Ranger acting _like_ the Lone Ranger. They expected us to be appeased because he had _one_ proper action scene, with the William Tell music playing, big hairy deal. That was too little and too late.
Thus with "LEAST Jedi." Having a _tiny_ bit of Luke doing something worthwhile at almost the very end was _not_ enough to make up for the way they had _trashed_ the character up till then.
You're not alone, Aravis! I _detest_ what I call "The _Least_ Jedi." It stinks to the Rim and back.
There was no _need_ to have Luke Skywalker be a useless whiner for 95 percent of the movie.
Does anyone remember the Lone Ranger film that featured Johnny Depp as Tonto? They made the Lone Ranger be _absolutely_ useless for 95 percent of the movie. Then, almost at the _very_ end, they finally tossed us a little token morsel of the Lone Ranger acting _like_ the Lone Ranger. They expected us to be appeased because he had _one_ proper action scene, with the William Tell music playing, big hairy deal. That was too little and too late.
Thus with "LEAST Jedi." Having a _tiny_ bit of Luke doing something worthwhile at almost the very end was _not_ enough to make up for the way they had _trashed_ the character up till then.
Aravis Kenobi
New member
Ugh. I HATE that version of the Lone Ranger, not just because of the Lone Ranger's complete uselessness and pathetic character, but because of Johnny Depp as Tonto. Every time I think of his casting I get irritated-there are so many high quality Native actors out there who could have played that role just as well. I'm kind of against non-Native actors who play Native roles. It just goads me so much.
As for my thoughts on TLJ, quite honestly I'm still so irritated by it that I don't have a clear frame of mind to write a review/comment on very many aspects of it. Plus it was so jumbled I would need to see it again just to figure out what I disliked to begin with. Two things mainly that I can think of immediately: Leia floating in space and Luke's whining. Yep. He's a Skywalker all right.
And I'm sorry, I can accept Leia pulling herself back to the ship (presumably via the Force), but I CANNOT accept that she survived being blown out into space! oh, and her pulling herself to the ship via the Force (presumably) is also not exactly believable, because even though she's a Skywalker, and yes we all know that the Skywalker line has amazing Force potential....she didn't train as a Jedi. She can't just wiggle her fingers and it work like that. Disney made sure to do away with the EU, which involved Leia being a Jedi...so no. Not gonna make me believe it, Mickey Mouse. Not gonna make me.
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Copperfox
Well-known member
Good thoughts, Aravis-- although it's conceivable that Leia got in some sort of training from her brother BEFORE he turned into a useless crybaby.
Since enough time has passed that we can begin to address the specifics, here's one bit which infuriated me:
I mostly like the character of Rose, I believe that she genuinely loves Finn, and I would be perfectly okay with them getting together. BUT-- she would need to quit being so condescending to him. After she interfered with his intended act of self-sacrifice, although she did it because she loved him and didn't want him to die, she was ALL WRONG in the lecture she gave him. She told him, "That's how we'll win: not by fighting what we hate, but by saving what we love."
EX-CUUUUSE me, but in his kamikaze attack, Finn ALREADY WAS trying to save what he loved! He didn't need Rose to GIVE him the idea of caring about people and feeling affection for them. She needs to get off her high horse -- or off whatever those long-eared racing animals were called.
If this were the only example of heroes being belittled and looked down on in "The LEAST Jedi," I wouldn't be bothered much; but it wasn't the only example.
Since enough time has passed that we can begin to address the specifics, here's one bit which infuriated me:
I mostly like the character of Rose, I believe that she genuinely loves Finn, and I would be perfectly okay with them getting together. BUT-- she would need to quit being so condescending to him. After she interfered with his intended act of self-sacrifice, although she did it because she loved him and didn't want him to die, she was ALL WRONG in the lecture she gave him. She told him, "That's how we'll win: not by fighting what we hate, but by saving what we love."
EX-CUUUUSE me, but in his kamikaze attack, Finn ALREADY WAS trying to save what he loved! He didn't need Rose to GIVE him the idea of caring about people and feeling affection for them. She needs to get off her high horse -- or off whatever those long-eared racing animals were called.
If this were the only example of heroes being belittled and looked down on in "The LEAST Jedi," I wouldn't be bothered much; but it wasn't the only example.
Princess Frances
Active member
Jabba's attitude toward Luke's warnings in ROTJ was very dismissive and casual for someone who was alive at the time of the Old Republic and was fully aware of just how dangerous a Jedi can be.
tirian_son_of_erlian
Active member
^ True. These are movies. This didn't all really happen a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.
I've enjoyed what I've read. I laughed out loud when, AK, I read what you wrote about Leia and Mickey Mouse. You said it well. This scene was completely unnecessary. Even inter-cutting with supporting shots could have made it bearable; for example Luke senses Leia's danger and reaches out AND/OR the ship also thrusts toward her suggesting a gravitational enigma. Perhaps because I had come across this potential spoiler months ago, or perhaps because I cannot think of an alternative way to gracefully weaken the character (in light of her actress' passing) to make way for Holdo and Poe, this didn't break the film for me.
I still understand the reaction to Luke, and simply wish to share the reflections of Luke by a member (just 10 years older than myself) from theforce.net. Their username is "Lord TW." Grateful that my losses have been few, they are still painful, so after I read this post, I realized Lord TW captured so succinctly what resonates so well with me about Luke:
"As a 45-year old white male who first saw SW in the theater in 1978 (first rerelease) for $1 (!), sure, I took notice of the female-driven heroes (BTW, the FO also had Asian women) and that a rather Earthly agenda seemed to sneak in a bit (i.e., Rose' animal rights activism). But in the end, they didn't detract from the broader film one bit - in fact, upon second-viewing, they were barely noticeable (in contrast to, e.g., Jar Jar's poop jokes in TPM). Further, how could I not notice that the biggest hero ended up being the old white dude? I live near a city. The characters in the movie reflected my city. How is that bad?
Johnson impressed me with his ability to develop character arcs logicially, but surprisingly. With one exception on each side of the conflict (Hux and Rose, who I presume were intended to ground the viewer in the causes, rather than grow as characters), every character evolved: Rey, Poe, Finn, Kylo, Holdo, etc. - even Leia, in recognizing Poe's maturity.
The cinematography astounded me. I was drawn in by the tension of the unfolding opening space battle; watching Poe's fighter slowly creep up the Dreadnaught, while Hux watched from afar, created anticipation I hadn't felt since ESB, when Luke walks through Cloud City searching for Vader.
The sound reminded me of ROTS; the score and effects are an under-appreciated pleasure of that film. When Johnson dropped all sound during Holdo's heroic act, it pulled me in, much as ROTS did in its opening battle, specifically when OB1 and Anakin land in the hangar on Grievous' ship. This audio trick forces you to pay attention to the scene. I loved it.
Finally, there is Luke. Apparently, everyone wants an optimist in our heroes. He emerged from ROTJ intent on rebuilding the Jedi, so people aren't happy he has abandoned the Force in TLJ. But he didn't abandon the Force in TLJ; he abandoned it in TFA. I admire how Johnson brought him back. As someone who considers himself a lifelong optimist, but has lost three family members in recent years, I can understand how one can be brought down low, especially where family is concerned. I can understand how dark thoughts can creep in and make you think things you have never thought previously. I can understand how they can change one's view of the world, and make you want to run away to go die somewhere - maybe not actively, but certainly live with less passion and vigor. Luke's journey resonated with me in a way I did not expect - and I loved this movie for it. I didn't want Luke to have left the Force, but I understand why he did, and his comeback had such a deeper impact, as a result. Some of our friends had a similar viewpoint. None of us is immune to loss - TLJ reminded us that the true heroes emerge from the depths stronger than ever."
I've enjoyed what I've read. I laughed out loud when, AK, I read what you wrote about Leia and Mickey Mouse. You said it well. This scene was completely unnecessary. Even inter-cutting with supporting shots could have made it bearable; for example Luke senses Leia's danger and reaches out AND/OR the ship also thrusts toward her suggesting a gravitational enigma. Perhaps because I had come across this potential spoiler months ago, or perhaps because I cannot think of an alternative way to gracefully weaken the character (in light of her actress' passing) to make way for Holdo and Poe, this didn't break the film for me.
I still understand the reaction to Luke, and simply wish to share the reflections of Luke by a member (just 10 years older than myself) from theforce.net. Their username is "Lord TW." Grateful that my losses have been few, they are still painful, so after I read this post, I realized Lord TW captured so succinctly what resonates so well with me about Luke:
"As a 45-year old white male who first saw SW in the theater in 1978 (first rerelease) for $1 (!), sure, I took notice of the female-driven heroes (BTW, the FO also had Asian women) and that a rather Earthly agenda seemed to sneak in a bit (i.e., Rose' animal rights activism). But in the end, they didn't detract from the broader film one bit - in fact, upon second-viewing, they were barely noticeable (in contrast to, e.g., Jar Jar's poop jokes in TPM). Further, how could I not notice that the biggest hero ended up being the old white dude? I live near a city. The characters in the movie reflected my city. How is that bad?
Johnson impressed me with his ability to develop character arcs logicially, but surprisingly. With one exception on each side of the conflict (Hux and Rose, who I presume were intended to ground the viewer in the causes, rather than grow as characters), every character evolved: Rey, Poe, Finn, Kylo, Holdo, etc. - even Leia, in recognizing Poe's maturity.
The cinematography astounded me. I was drawn in by the tension of the unfolding opening space battle; watching Poe's fighter slowly creep up the Dreadnaught, while Hux watched from afar, created anticipation I hadn't felt since ESB, when Luke walks through Cloud City searching for Vader.
The sound reminded me of ROTS; the score and effects are an under-appreciated pleasure of that film. When Johnson dropped all sound during Holdo's heroic act, it pulled me in, much as ROTS did in its opening battle, specifically when OB1 and Anakin land in the hangar on Grievous' ship. This audio trick forces you to pay attention to the scene. I loved it.
Finally, there is Luke. Apparently, everyone wants an optimist in our heroes. He emerged from ROTJ intent on rebuilding the Jedi, so people aren't happy he has abandoned the Force in TLJ. But he didn't abandon the Force in TLJ; he abandoned it in TFA. I admire how Johnson brought him back. As someone who considers himself a lifelong optimist, but has lost three family members in recent years, I can understand how one can be brought down low, especially where family is concerned. I can understand how dark thoughts can creep in and make you think things you have never thought previously. I can understand how they can change one's view of the world, and make you want to run away to go die somewhere - maybe not actively, but certainly live with less passion and vigor. Luke's journey resonated with me in a way I did not expect - and I loved this movie for it. I didn't want Luke to have left the Force, but I understand why he did, and his comeback had such a deeper impact, as a result. Some of our friends had a similar viewpoint. None of us is immune to loss - TLJ reminded us that the true heroes emerge from the depths stronger than ever."
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Princess Frances
Active member
I know the movies aren't real. But, nitpickers don't deal in reality.
WarriorSatyr
Member
My main nitpick with the movie was how absolutely useless the Resistance bombers near the beginning were. Would it help if I got out and pushed? Seriously.
tirian_son_of_erlian
Active member
All of you have sensible comments and I tend to be a tad brash (working on that!). Better would be to play along and ask how extensive the Huts' knowledge of the Jedi even was, living on planet(s) outside of the control of the Republic?
I saw "The Last Jedi" a second time and still like it very much, mainly because it's something different. I agree the bombers could have done more before they were rapidly extinguished.I still detest Kylo Ren and wonder what possible greater purpose he could serve in Episode 9. Luke's final scenes are still a mystery; I'm not entirely sure why he wasn't really where he appeared to be for a more proper climactic confrontation. I still think having the heroes' forces all but eliminated by the end of the film sets the stage for the concluding installment. I cannot help but wonder if folks across the board are now ready for closure to the Skywalker saga.
Anyway, when all is said and done, this next Star Wars story may offer a bit of something for everybody. There were rumors a Solo trailer might drop today. Does anyone have updated information on the film's progress?
I saw "The Last Jedi" a second time and still like it very much, mainly because it's something different. I agree the bombers could have done more before they were rapidly extinguished.I still detest Kylo Ren and wonder what possible greater purpose he could serve in Episode 9. Luke's final scenes are still a mystery; I'm not entirely sure why he wasn't really where he appeared to be for a more proper climactic confrontation. I still think having the heroes' forces all but eliminated by the end of the film sets the stage for the concluding installment. I cannot help but wonder if folks across the board are now ready for closure to the Skywalker saga.
Anyway, when all is said and done, this next Star Wars story may offer a bit of something for everybody. There were rumors a Solo trailer might drop today. Does anyone have updated information on the film's progress?
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