The Series is threatened.

Having Trumpkin on the ship would not have to damage the SPIRIT of "Dawn Treader." The spirit of "Prince Caspian" WAS devastated by changing the title character into "I'm Too Sexy For This Book." I still am apprehensive of them ending "Dawn Treader" with denial of Aslan's explicit identity as Jesus Christ.
 
Having Trumpkin on the Dawn Treader would also ruin the beginning of TSC (assuming they film it). They would then either have to change Aslan's first task for Jill or not have Trumpkin in that movie.

Now if they want to have Trumpkin at Cair Parevel or maybe even the first part of the voyage before they encounter the three Friends, then I could live with that.

But if Trumpkin actually meets with Eustace in VotDT, they have sabatoged the next movie.

MrBob
 
MrBob said:
Having Trumpkin on the Dawn Treader would also ruin the beginning of TSC (assuming they film it). They would then either have to change Aslan's first task for Jill or not have Trumpkin in that movie.

Now if they want to have Trumpkin at Cair Parevel or maybe even the first part of the voyage before they encounter the three Friends, then I could live with that.

But if Trumpkin actually meets with Eustace in VotDT, they have sabatoged the next movie.

MrBob
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That's just it, it would take away one of the fans' favorite Trumpkin scenes of all time in Silver Chair. I mean, who doesn't want to see a mostly deaf Trumpkin trying to talk to Eustace and Jill. That scene would be too funny. And there's a likelyhood that we'll never see it. I'd hate to see the fans robbed of it. :(

If Trumpkin is on the voyage there is potential for things to be changed as far as the spirit of the book goes. If he's there, then all that he is doing is pure fanfiction which can change everything in a huge way. It impacts all of the other characters and events when they introduce another main character where they do not belong. :confused:

The ending will be interesting to see Joseph. I want the last speech in there but to make it work they'd need to keep to the spirit of Aslan which was on shaky ground in the last film. The end of VDT is one of my favorite parts of the series...not that you can't tell by my siggy or anything. :rolleyes:
 
Does anyone else struggle with a cynical idea that the powers-that-be secretly WANT each consecutive film to do poorly so that they will have an excuse to stop making them before they ever get into the super-touchy religious themes in Last Battle or the it's-so-obvious-the-Calormenes-are-Arabs in H&HB? Really and truly, HOW are they going to handle that stuff? It makes me think Disney would welcome an excuse to put a lid on the series, although I had hoped better things of Walden and Gresham - then again, who knows what pressure they are under and from which direction.

I can't think of any other reason - besides sheer Hollywood stupidity, which I admit knows no bounds - they would fiddle with the text in ways seemingly specifically designed to tick off fans of the books.
 
Sunrise said:
Does anyone else struggle with a cynical idea that the powers-that-be secretly WANT each consecutive film to do poorly so that they will have an excuse to stop making them before they ever get into the super-touchy religious themes in Last Battle or the it's-so-obvious-the-Calormenes-are-Arabs in H&HB? Really and truly, HOW are they going to handle that stuff? It makes me think Disney would welcome an excuse to put a lid on the series, although I had hoped better things of Walden and Gresham - then again, who knows what pressure they are under and from which direction.

I can't think of any other reason - besides sheer Hollywood stupidity, which I admit knows no bounds - they would fiddle with the text in ways seemingly specifically designed to tick off fans of the books.
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I'll respond to that. If I had not met the cast and crew Sunrise, I'd have agreed with you all the way. There are still days I wonder. I believe that Mark would love to see all the films made. He does struggle with the adaptation end of things and how to handle it all but is willing to take that giant on. What I'm not sure of is how many people are behind him in that ambition. The movie industry, when all is said and done, is a business. They have to please the investors in the films or they can't make them. The investors have made it clear that they want the films to reach a much bigger audience than just the book fans and they do not want it to be overtly "Christian." You and I know that there's no way to avoid this if they do Last Battle unless they want to make a grand mess of everything in a horrific manner. They did not intend to make 7 films when they started LWW. I think they didn't know what animal they were taking on when they started. We both know that the Lion won't be tangled with. They now see potential for the films, and I'd agree that they have a vast amount of potential. But, their need to be politically correct and please Hollywood will suck the life out of the Chronicles. As POTW stressed, you can't take something like these books and make them modern. You just can't. It won't work.

As for Doug Gresham, I know he's in a tough position. He wants very much for all of the films to be made, for them to be faithful adaptations of the books, and I have no doubt that he'd love to see peoples' lives changed in them coming to the Lord because of the work being done. However, he has Hollywood to deal with. He has the C.S. Lewis Company to deal with as well. A lot of people think Doug has more power in decision making than he does. He has a strong voice, but he has to give and take some or risk it all. Go easy on him. He's a neat guy. He did make it clear in an interview at one point though that the Calormenes, though they lend themselves to appearing as arab, were not designed that way and probably wouldn't be presented as such.

As for Walden, there are changes taking place there too. They were initially designed as a company to put out family films. The head of it was a Christian and was excited about the Narnia films. He's now stepping down from his role and away from Walden. Reasons were not given for that in detail, but it does not bode well for the trust fans have in the company for them to get things done right.

What I will say Sunrise is that I totally agree that somewhere they've gone out of their way to make decisions that will anger fans of the books. They depend very heavily on the non-book fans, or the people who read the books maybe once when they were kids but can't remember a lot. They've sufficiently alienated general Lewis fans, bothered several Narnia fans, and greatly undermined the trust of the fan base they had. So, at this point the ball is in their court. They need to decide what to do. If they stick to the books and spirit of the characters this go around they will gain a bit of trust back and a vast amount of ground. But, if they decide to push their adaptation into the realm of fanfiction and change the story too much as was done some in Prince Caspian, it will not fly and the franchise will end. I have little doubt that if they put characters like Trumpkin and Cornelius ON the voyage as opposed to in Narnia at the start and end of the film, the franchise will end. It would undermine the trust of the fans that much. They'd be done.

This makes me sad. I wanted so much to see the films do well and to see the beloved stories I'd grown up with and loved for 30 years. LWW did pretty well. Prince Caspian crossed several boundaries. Now, we wait to see what Walden and Disney decide to do with VDT. I hope they will stick to the books. Only God knows and time will tell.
 
I had heard about the head of Walden stepping down. That bothers me as well, as I had come to really respect that company as one of the few who could be trusted with family films and book adaptations. They've done an amazing job on quite a few.

It's not cast and crew I'm worried about, or Gresham, even, who, from all I hear, is a terrific guy. But you bring up exactly the points that worry me...it's the bean-counters and the overall Hollywood sentiment, the bias they don't even know they have, that's going to kill the series - and I don't think they will be sorry. I think they'll be relieved.

The depressing thing is that Hollywood is so out-of-touch with reality that they refuse to acknowledge the wild success of many films with Christian messages - The Passion comes to mind. Somehow they believe that those who would be offended by it are some kind of overwhelming majority, when the opposite is the case. Either that, or it's not really about the money at all, but really is a blatant anti-Christian bias.
 
If Trumpkin went on VDT that would open the door for a lot fo storyline changes that might damage the film, but it wouldn't spoil the opening of SC because -- so may years will have gone by. Trumpkin is then so old and fat he can't even walk, doubtless with a long beard and all, so no wonder if Eustace does not recognize him any more than he doesn't recognize Caspian ... and the owls would still whisk Eustace away just as they did in the book, even if he claimed to know Trumpkin, once he understood who that fat old regent was.

I don't think the moviemakers would want to destroy the franchise before they got to the more religious ones again. They just want to make money. But Hollywood is so blinded to the potential market for Christian films, they just don't value the themes.
 
Ink it would change things. The first sign is to go to someone he knows....that would be difficult to do and still keep that Trumpkin scene without problems. It would never work. I don't think so anyway. I do agree Sunrise. I think they'd be relieved too. They don't want to deal with the themes as Ink said. Many of them deal with the concept of Lordship and that's one that most people want to avoid. It reminds people that they have someone to answer to and that they're not in control.

They're sticking their heads in the sand. Coming to grips with an untame lion is not what they had in mind. Making money is. They've pulled the plug on the concept artists...we'll have to wait and see for the rest. Nothing would shock me at all at this point.
 
Yah, Trumpkin on the boat would open the door to some changes, but not necessarily disastrous ones in my mind ... but if they've actually decided not to start the filming after all, that's sad -- but just as well if they were going to make more PC-type changes.
 
You know, I don't remember. I really do think that PC would have done better opening this month than it did in May, though. People are looking for fantasy-fare around the Christma break. I would have hated to wait this long for it, but think how nice it would be to be going to see it for the first time now ... or second time, actually -- the first time, I was kind of wrought up about it.
 
Unfortunately, it doesn't seem as if hollywood will make the more religious movies because they are religious and have good values, so someone has to make them see it in a different light. I feel that all the movies could be made according to the books if we present it as

A) Making the books according to the movie, with the religious themes, which makes true fans happy, so they go and see it,
or
B) Cutting the series short, not having to mess with the religion, but also potentially losing millions in profit(assuming that they, in plan A, time the release date right, so that it doesn't come out next to any other major movie, to increase profits, and that they make it EXACTLY as the book says).

It's sad that this may be the only way, but until we, TDL, get some members of TDL running some of the production places, or get the people who run those places on TDL, or get people with good Christian values running them, it seems like the only way.
 
Walden has brought out good family-friendly movies, and I know of course Doug Gresham is supportive of the spiritual themes ... ITW knows more about the writers than I; clearly the ones who wrote the PC script did not understand the story very well, or particularly the spiritual themes.
 
inkspot said:
Walden has brought out good family-friendly movies, and I know of course Doug Gresham is supportive of the spiritual themes ... ITW knows more about the writers than I; clearly the ones who wrote the PC script did not understand the story very well, or particularly the spiritual themes.
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I just hope those aren't the same writers that will be writing VotDT.
 
Personally, I don't see the big deal over PC. It's been made, so we can't do anything about it, and more than likely, we can't help what the writers will do with VDT. I really enjoyed PC and I was pleased as much of the book made it as it did. Yes, it wasn't maybe as close as they could have written it, but I still think it would have been quite boring if it had been made the way the book was written. Most of the book was walking and talking. *and frankly, there weren't many spiritual themes in PC that were as obvious as the ones in LWW.*

Michael Apted will do well with VDT. I honestly see that. He did an amazing job with Amazing Grace and he's an agnostic. I see him doing a very good job with VDT. I'm sure Doug Gresham understands exactly how hard it is to adapt books to screen. He even said so on one of the BTS features on the dvd. I see his point.
 
Some of it in pc i didn't agree with but we can't change that it has been made and it could have went further from the book then it had been but at least it kept the getneral idea of the story.
 
Yeah, I liked it compared to what it would've been like going exactly off the book, except for the Susan/Caspian thing, which is what I hear everyone was most mad about, and I hope they don't give up on the series because they don't get as much profit off of the later movies as they did off of LWW.
 
I think LWW was\is probably the easiest one to adapt. I mean, look at VDT. Most of this book takes place on a boat. It's a slow adventure. Not much excitement except in a few spots. Mainly with PC all they wanted to do was speed it up a bit. And yes, I wouldn't have minded seeing more of Aslan in it and the romp with Susan and Lucy but the way the film was paced, it wouldn't have made sense and I think the audience was ready for the film to end. Otherwise you'd have a film like LOTR which went on for 4 hours. *I still like LOTR, btw...just a bit long. lol*
 
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