Why does everyone hate this movie merged with worst change

What was the worst change from the book in your opinion?

  • Interlacing the Caspian sequences between the Pevensie sequences

    Votes: 1 0.7%

  • Aslan's first introduction

    Votes: 9 6.2%

  • The addition of the raid of Miraz's castle

    Votes: 9 6.2%

  • Peter's added cockiness and arrogance

    Votes: 50 34.5%

  • Susan's romantic affair with Caspian

    Votes: 49 33.8%

  • Caspian's age

    Votes: 3 2.1%

  • Something else

    Votes: 7 4.8%

  • They were all good

    Votes: 17 11.7%
  • Total voters
    145
Truman, you keep saying that Peter had much more responsibility than the others and thus lost more. But I have to point out--Peter was, what, twelve? And the oldest of the children. Even in England, he would have been afforded some responsibility and some respect. Lucy and Edmund went back to being under twelve; they would have been children again. Perhaps they had less to lose than their brother*, but I think they lost more of it.

Anyway, the question isn't so much why Peter is most changed as why the others are somehow okay with the whole change. If the director wanted to explore the trauma of losing your home and a decade of your life, why only do it with one child?

*Though there isn't a ton of evidence about how much authority Peter exercised over his siblings--that's mostly guesswork.
 
I'm basing the arguments I make on the age Peter is in the films, which is considerably older than 12. True, he's around 13 in the LWW book... If they had cast a younger boy, I'm sure we wouldn't be having this discussion now. ;) If Peter was actually about 14 or 15 in the "Prince Caspian" movie, the writers would most likely have not added as much trauma to his character. But since he's older (in fact, in his twenties in reality) his character must also be altered for realism.
 
But the point still stands--an older Peter would have been treated much more like an adult back home. Lucy and Edmund would not have had the privilege.
 
How does going from being a king to a semi-adult hurt any more than going from being a king (or queen) to a child? (And, in Edmund's case, a child no one trusts to play nice with others.)
 
Animus Wyrmis said:
How does going from being a king to a semi-adult hurt any more than going from being a king (or queen) to a child? (And, in Edmund's case, a child no one trusts to play nice with others.)
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Because children aren't as experienced as young adults. It's like what children are to watching movies. When I watched "Titanic" for the first time I neither remembered, nor cared about Kate Winslet's racy drawing scene. I didn't understand such things. Later, I understood the intent and purpose of the scene (and how they could have possibly not shown it in the entirety they did :rolleyes:). The fact remains that young adults are more prone to trauma than children are. Just think about teenage hormones! ;)
 
Indeed. Imagine suddenly being pushed back into your ten-year-old body--suddenly you have to learn arithmetic, someone tells you when to go to bed, what to wear, what to eat...you have no agency. As far as hormones go--you remember falling in love, maybe you remember being intimate with someone. Wouldn't having those memories screw you up?

They can't have it both ways. If they kept the memories of being kings and queens, all the kids should have been screwed up, not just Peter. If not...none of them should have been.
 
Animus Wyrmis said:
They can't have it both ways. If they kept the memories of being kings and queens, all the kids should have been screwed up, not just Peter. If not...none of them should have been.
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Perhaps... Perhaps they should've been. But Peter was high king. It's true, we'll never know the complete story of what happened in the "Golden Age." But as I said before, all their maturity was apparently erased while their memories were still present.

My theory: They might've remembered the experiences they had, but Lucy and Edmund no longer understood what certain experiences meant. You could tell Susan was quite afraid of how long it might last the second time before they left again. But experiences like the power Peter possessed is always understood, whether you're a child or a young adult. That's the difference between Peter and the other children: his ascendency over the rest and over Narnia.
 
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But experiences like the power Peter possessed is always understood, whether you're a child or a young adult. That's the difference between Peter and the other children: his ascendency over the rest and over Narnia.

I think you're making too much of the difference between high king and normal king/queen. Think about it this way: let's say two kids spent a couple years as president and vice-president of the US before being sent back to normal life. The child who had been VP would have had much less power than the president, but she would probably still have some problems adjusting back to normal kid.

They all had that power; they all had to lose the responsibility of ruling a country. They all lost a great deal. I mean, Lucy had to give up laying between the paws of God--Edmund lost some of the only real friends he seems to have had--Susan was looking at suitors, for Heaven's sake! I'm ambivalent on how that should have been addressed, but only addressing it with Peter was just ridiculous.
 
But Peter was in charge of the decision-making. He was, as you put it, the President, while the others were all vice-presidents. His authority was unmatched, he even had power to declare war; that's power you can't buy. Sure, the others had some similar duties, but all reported to him. And as I said, the levels of maturity they attained in Narnia were lost when they exited. The knowledge of what was lost, however, still existed among them all. That's where the debate started about "what constitutes as the biggest loss?". I assert that the biggest loss of all was Peter's. The others had lost much as well, but uncomparable to Peter.

EDIT: Sorry, this might get to you too late. :o -- The losses of the other children were also addressed: Lucy/Aslan (her encounter). Susan/friends (the "while it lasts" discussion). Edmund/adventures (the various references to "back in the good old days").
 
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We may have to agree to disagree here. I don't think you can say that Peter suffered the biggest loss (I mean, it's sort of like the president/vice-president thing. It doesn't matter which one you had if you have to go back to first grade the next day; both will screw you up), nor that his power over his siblings was so unmatched as to make it unparalleled. We do know that Susan was apparently making marriage decisions without him; Lucy and Edmund decided to aid Archenland without him as well. But we just don't have enough information about the Golden Age to start making assumptions about how much authority and/or responsibility Peter had.

They kind of addressed it with the others, but Peter seemed to be the only one having trouble adjusting to being back in England. In the books none of them seem to have any problems, but at least that's consistent--in the movie it was like Peter couldn't manage to adjust to England or to Narnia when he got back, but the rest of them went fairly seemlessly into their old roles. Even Lucy, who no one ever really saw as a queen post-LWW. I don't particularly mind that the film wanted to explore that, but there wasn't enough explanation as to why Peter was so screwed up, so it comes off looking like he's just an entitled jerk.
 
" Personally I don't believe this, because in the book (Prince Caspian) they remember certain events and relay back to them when looking over their old possessions in their chests when they get into the secret passage. Lucy and Edmund are also referenced in VDT (at the beginning) that they pretend like they're "once again in Narnia," having old adventures, which Lewis explains that Eustace thinks is childish and moronic."

Truman, once they were back in Narnia, they could remember their Narnian memories. That was how they knew how to fight with swords and shoot arrows so well when proving to Trumpkin that they were who they said they were.

Even when they were back on Earth, they could remember their experiences if they made a conscious effort to do so. The Professor in the books even cautions them not to talk too much about it, a possible note to live in their own world and not try to keep living in Narnia.

"If you had been paying attention you would've noticed that Peter, theoretically, never started that fight. Sure he hit him, but think about the low-belt insult issued by the other. Not too much to ask for, is it?"

It also isn't too much to walk away when not issued an apology. Is beating an apology out of someone really the correct etiquette. Heck, when I bump into someone, even if they were the ones mainly at fault, I will apologize out of common decency. If they rise it to the next leel, I walk away. If someone starts a fight over not being given an apology, I do call that person a rabble rouser.

"And yet, everyone else was supposed to act like they did before? I stand by my guns: their maturity was never retained. They remained children with child minds who acted just as they did before they ever entered the wardrobe."

No. They were supposed to act better than they did before they left the wardrobe. Edmund maintained his maturity. And as for the difference in level of importance being High King, not everything had to cross Peter's desk. Edmund and Lucy went to battle without Peter's knowledge as Peter was in Ettinsmoor in battle at the time. Lucy was in charge of Narnia (any troubles came by her--in fact, she was probably the one who first heard about the attack on Anvard and got the forces ready. They each had their own major responsibilities as kings and queens.

In fact, you make my point when you stated "Lucy is a little girl. What is she going to do? What power does she have, exactly, when it comes to making decisions in the family?" She went from queen, known as the Valiant, who fought in battles and helped to rule an entire country and keep the peace to a little girl who had no say in anything anymore. If she could remember everything, she would have been a seriously messed up child and the brattiest one. Edmund would have reverted to his old ways as well if he could have remembered everything always and had to go back to the preteen child.

Imagine if any of them had been romatically involved with anyone there and had gone al the way. That would also seriously impact their innocent minds after coming back and remembering it.

You are seriously downplaying the other three siblings in regards to their responsibilities in Narnia and the traumatic impact it would have caused had they remembered their experiences they way you suggest Peter did.

"See, that doesn't add up. Why should Susan abandon her belief in Narnia while no one else did? That's the real question, but I think I know what really happened: maturity. The point Lewis was making was that Susan did grow and mature, only it was worldly maturity, not spritual. He then implied that worldy maturity was in fact immature by that definition."

No Truman, it wasn't maturity that was her problem, it was her dismissal of other imprtant factors. A Polly said about Susan, "She wasted all her school time wanting to be the age she is now, and she'll waste the rest of her life trying to be that age." This tells me that she was not being mature, but immature. She allowed her vanity and social life to take over everything else, including her school work and possibly her family and spiritual life as well.

I agree that her abandonment of Narnia was sudden and shocking, but the reason is not maturity. Digory and Polly matured, even if they never did get married, and never lost faith in Narnia or Aslan. So what do you mean by maturity?

MrBob
 
Hey MrBob, this is just going to go on back and forth for a really long time. I'll have a response, then you'll have one, etc. etc. I know you're tired... (maybe you're not, but I am). Animus was right; let's just agree to disagree, huh? Shake on it? :o
 
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