You know its easy to criticize movie Peter when watching the film but...

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inkspot said:
Peter is under no obligation to apologize; he was under an obligation to conduct himself like a King, an obligation in which he failed.
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I completely agree with this. I think the fact that Peter only had to answer to Aslan is all the more reason for Peter to have less to reproach himself with. After all, in Narnia, a King is not someone who is in a position to be receiving service but the person who serves everyone else - the first in battle, the last to retreat, who laughs heartiest on the emptiest stomach, etc. etc.
 
Here is the thing with the magic circles. In the books they know about magic circles, the quote from the book about it shows that. But in the book Peter didn't go into the circle. Neither did Caspian for that matter. The movie does not have anything to tell that they knew about circles or the enchantment that would fall on them (so far, we’ll see what they do with Silver Chair)

Also about Peter being the High King accountable to no one else besides Aslan. In the Last Battle we are told that King Frank (The first King of Narnia) was greater than all the Kings of Narnia and that all bowed to him and his Queen. Granted they were never alive in the time of Peter but they were greater. Peter was the High King between himself and Edmund. I don’t believe that Lewis was actually saying that over every other king in Narnia’s history Peter was higher. The Kings that came before the Pevensies I think Peter would have bowed to. Those who came after Peter however he wouldn’t. We just don’t hear anything about any of the Kings or Queens before the Pevensies came, besides King Frank and Queen Helen. Peter was probably the most famous for their defeat of the White With and their disaperance and return to assist Caspian.
That is how I see it at least.
 
~Lava~ said:
The book again proves the part about Caspian not knowing wrong, read point 2


The distraction theory is all nice and everything but if he was intending to use himself as a distraction then why did Edmund's cutting remark "I know, you had it sorted" wind up in the script and why did Peter not defend himself when Ed said it if Ed didn't know the plan.


I actually think that thing can be attributed more to Peter making the mistake that all were making when they tried to de-wand the witch in LWW than him trying to distract the witch for Ed. In LWW, ed succeeded in breaking the wand because he attacked from the side and not the front.
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Its always easy to look at situations like this after the event and say "Well he SHOULD have done this and not that" but its a very different story if you actually have to deal with such a situation in `real time`.
When you say "Ed didn`t know the plan" its because there actually wasn`t one.
Peter, Edmund, Trumpkin, and everyone are assessing the situation from moment to moment and dealing with each threat as it becomes obvious to them, trusting that one of the others will be able to intervene if they get in to trouble.
What happens here is Peter is lying on the ground after being knocked over by the Werewolf (Edmund is dealing with it). Sees that Caspian is about to `hold hands` with Jadis, thinks "this is BAD" , throws himself at Caspian to push him out of the way then finds himself in the circle instead. The whole thing takes less time than it took me to write this last paragraph.
Once in the circle, Jadis`s full attention becomes fixed on him and she tries to use the full force of her will to force him in to doing what she was compelling Caspian to do.
The only thing Peter CAN do at that point is to try and hold on long enough for one of his companions to act.
 
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AsbelMctalisker said:
Its always easy to look at situations like this after the event and say "Well he SHOULD have done this and not that" but its a very different story if you actually have to deal with such a situation in `real time`.
When you say "Ed didn`t know the plan" its because there actually wasn`t one.
Peter, Edmund, Trumpkin, and everyone are assessing the situation from moment to moment and dealing with each threat as it becomes obvious to them, trusting that one of the others will be able to intervene if they get in to trouble.
What happens here is Peter is lying on the ground after being knocked over by the Werewolf (Edmund is dealing with it). Sees that Caspian is about to `hold hands` with Jadis, thinks "this is BAD" , throws himself at Caspian to push him out of the way then finds himself in the circle instead. The whole thing takes less time than it took me to write this last paragraph.
Once in the circle, Jadis`s full attention becomes fixed on him and she tries to use the full force of her will to force him in to doing what she was compelling Caspian to do.
The only thing Peter CAN do at that point is to try and hold on long enough for one of his companions to act.
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Wow, that is a really good point!! *jumps up and down shouting YES!! over and over* I really agree with you!!!
I want to watch PC again, and when I do, I will make sure to note all the things that y'all that I agree with have been saying and see if I can see where those whom I disagree with are coming from.
I feel that, with the evidence before me, Peter did know about circles and what could happen because of them, and I feel that he was reacting to the circumstances. Perhaps it was a spur-of-the-moment thing, but it worked by giving the witch a distraction while Edmund broke the ice (pun intended :rolleyes:)
Honestly, one of my favorite scenes is the Duel, partly because it is just so awesome battle-wise, but also because it really shows the change brought upon Peter by the whole Castle Raid and the Sorcery and Sudden Vengeance scene. He really risks his life to allow his sisters the, ever-so-slight, chance of meeting Aslan. He knows that Aslan will come to the rescue, which means that he does believe in Aslan. Remember the dialogue just before the Duel between Peter and Trumpkin.
"That's your plan? Sending a little girl into the darkest parts of the forest, alone?"-Trumpkin
"Its our only chance."-Peter
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Look at what Peter said. He knows that their only chance is Aslan, showing how much faith he has in Aslan.
 
Yes, he has so much faith in Aslan. :rolls eyes: Aslan is Peter's last resort. He, in essence, spends half the movie basically not believing in Aslan or at the very least not trusting him to act. Then when he has no other options he uses Aslan as a fall-back.

Its like he keeps pushing that this is the only option and this other thing is the best option and when all fails, its "Oh wait, I remember now, we can let Aslan take care of it."
 
I watched Prince Caspian today, and was shocked that anyone could think that Peter was being humble at the end. He had a pouty attitude, and sounded very complaining and sarcastic when he said, "After all, I'm not needed here anymore." I wanted very much to shake him and scream in his face.
 
Yes, he has so much faith in Aslan. :rolls eyes: Aslan is Peter's last resort. He, in essence, spends half the movie basically not believing in Aslan or at the very least not trusting him to act. Then when he has no other options he uses Aslan as a fall-back.

Its like he keeps pushing that this is the only option and this other thing is the best option and when all fails, its "Oh wait, I remember now, we can let Aslan take care of it."
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I watched Prince Caspian today, and was shocked that anyone could think that Peter was being humble at the end. He had a pouty attitude, and sounded very complaining and sarcastic when he said, "After all, I'm not needed here anymore." I wanted very much to shake him and scream in his face.
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Firstly, Lava, let me be blunt. Your sarcasm really bothered me. Secondly, Aslan was not Peter's 'last resort.' At least not how you mean it. I believe that Peter looked around him and noticed that Aslan had not come, and he had the opportunity to come. Honestly, while I understand why he did not come sooner, I can understand how anyone might wonder why he had not come back. Peter was observing the situation and realizing that Aslan may not come anytime soon. In the end, he realizes that he is wrong, and that Aslan had come, he just had not shown himself yet. Remember when Peter bows to Aslan in the end. I believe that if he did not believe in Aslan, or just saw him as a 'last resort' he would not have bowed.

Now for Miss Reepicheep. I am so sorry, but I disagree so much with you that I do not know where to begin. I do not see how you DO NOT SEE HIS CHANGE! When he says "We are not really needed here anymore." I feel that he said it in a "You're right, I am not needed anymore. Caspian can take care of the country I love and would sacrifice my life for, and Aslan will always be there."
I believe that Aslan would not have let Peter go if Peter did not believe in Him anymore, or did not have faith in him. And Peter was VERY HUMBLE IN THE END!!! I realld do not see how you do not see it!!!!!

Remember, both of you, that he cared about Lucy very much, and would not have sent her out into the worst part of the forest in search of someone who he did not believe was coming..
 
~Lava~ said:
Yes, he has so much faith in Aslan. :rolls eyes: Aslan is Peter's last resort. He, in essence, spends half the movie basically not believing in Aslan or at the very least not trusting him to act. Then when he has no other options he uses Aslan as a fall-back.

Its like he keeps pushing that this is the only option and this other thing is the best option and when all fails, its "Oh wait, I remember now, we can let Aslan take care of it."
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With all that sarcasm, allow me to quote King Caspian the 10th. "That is disgusting, Eustace, even for you."
MissReepicheep said:
I watched Prince Caspian today, and was shocked that anyone could think that Peter was being humble at the end. He had a pouty attitude, and sounded very complaining and sarcastic when he said, "After all, I'm not needed here anymore." I wanted very much to shake him and scream in his face.
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I'm shocked that anyone could delute themselves into believing something so opposite of what could clearly be seen.
QueenLucyTheValient said:
Firstly, Lava, let me be blunt. Your sarcasm really bothered me. Secondly, Aslan was not Peter's 'last resort.' At least not how you mean it. I believe that Peter looked around him and noticed that Aslan had not come, and he had the opportunity to come. Honestly, while I understand why he did not come sooner, I can understand how anyone might wonder why he had not come back. Peter was observing the situation and realizing that Aslan may not come anytime soon. In the end, he realizes that he is wrong, and that Aslan had come, he just had not shown himself yet. Remember when Peter bows to Aslan in the end. I believe that if he did not believe in Aslan, or just saw him as a 'last resort' he would not have bowed.

Now for Miss Reepicheep. I am so sorry, but I disagree so much with you that I do not know where to begin. I do not see how you DO NOT SEE HIS CHANGE! When he says "We are not really needed here anymore." I feel that he said it in a "You're right, I am not needed anymore. Caspian can take care of the country I love and would sacrifice my life for, and Aslan will always be there."
I believe that Aslan would not have let Peter go if Peter did not believe in Him anymore, or did not have faith in him. And Peter was VERY HUMBLE IN THE END!!! I realld do not see how you do not see it!!!!!

Remember, both of you, that he cared about Lucy very much, and would not have sent her out into the worst part of the forest in search of someone who he did not believe was coming..
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Excelent points, your highness. :)
 
~Lava~ said:
He, in essence, spends half the movie basically not believing in Aslan or at the very least not trusting him to act.
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There is this scene between Peter and Lucy when Lucy tells Peter, "Have you forgotten who really defeated the White Witch, Peter?" and Peter says, "We can't keep waiting for Aslan." I don't think Peter really had faith in Aslan in the movies. It's completely different from in the book. In the book, he doesn't believe Lucy when she says she saw Aslan. But in the book, they have already met Aslan before they meet up with Caspian.
 
katsullivan said:
There is this scene between Peter and Lucy when Lucy tells Peter, "Have you forgotten who really defeated the White Witch, Peter?" and Peter says, "We can't keep waiting for Aslan." I don't think Peter really had faith in Aslan in the movies. It's completely different from in the book. In the book, he doesn't believe Lucy when she says she saw Aslan. But in the book, they have already met Aslan before they meet up with Caspian.
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That scene gives a lot of insight into Peter.
 
Believe me, I would very much like to see Peter's supposed repentance at the end. But it isn't there. Yes, he is behaving better than he was before, I won't deny that. But his response was- never mind. Why would I say anything when I know that everyone will mock me for being inable to see repentance in pouty behavior?
 
Firstly, I do not see how you can say he was being pouty in the end!!! Secondly, WE ARE NOT MOCKING YOU!!!!! We are discussing this. If I have given you the impression that i was mocking you I apologize.

Look, Peter was not pouty. I thought we could agree on that, but I was obviously wrong. He was so much better in the end that honestly do not see how you can say otherwise!!!! But I guess that I will never get you to see the truth, so I might as well give up. And yes I am sort of angry, and I apologize for being that way. :o

I believe that Peter did almost everything for Narnia( obviously not the fight at the beginning, but everything else.) Peter was still the high king, just he had to learn a lesson that he should have learned already. Look, the one thing we do agree on is that the writers were stupid for adding that whole sidething. But we will obviously never agree on the rest of it, so you can stop acting like the people I agree with and I are total idiots for seeing what was meant to be seen, and seeing the good aspect of that side of the movie.
 
All right. I'm sorry. *takes deep breath*

Please tell me in great detail exactly what he did that shows repentance. I would like to think this through further.
 
Thank you, katsullivan. That scene is the very scene on which I based the comments from my last post. It speaks volumes about his distrust and/or unbelief in Aslan.

I am not an emotion-driven person; I do not easily detach reason from my reaction to things. My sarcasm was for effect; it was intended to get people to think. In fact, I intended for it to bother people because in bothering you I made you think more about the situation. I cannot pin-point many times in the Prince Caspian movie where Peter showed faith in Aslan. Throughout the movie, Peter had a sullen attitude toward Aslan as evidenced by the quote from the beginning "It's been a year, how long does he expect us to wait," and the scene where Peter yells at Lucy. He only resorts to Aslan when he no longer has any options that he can think of.

I can echo your shock at people not being able to see what's before their eyes. I know there are points in the movie where PETER shines through all the muck they made him into but those points are almost always lost shortly thereafter when the script-writers completely trash Peter's character.

I must say that I find myself totally agreeing with Miss R, inkspot, and katsullivan. I do not know that this thread is moving forward in debate; we seem to be deadlocked.
 
katsullivan said:
There is this scene between Peter and Lucy when Lucy tells Peter, "Have you forgotten who really defeated the White Witch, Peter?" and Peter says, "We can't keep waiting for Aslan." I don't think Peter really had faith in Aslan in the movies. It's completely different from in the book. In the book, he doesn't believe Lucy when she says she saw Aslan. But in the book, they have already met Aslan before they meet up with Caspian.
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No, he said, "I think we've waited for Aslan long enough." What he means is that he doesn't think Aslan is just going to come roaring in like He does in the end times. Peter believed that this time they just had to do the best they could until Aslan shows Himself again.
MissReepicheep said:
All right. I'm sorry. *takes deep breath*

Please tell me in great detail exactly what he did that shows repentance. I would like to think this through further.
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I think the real issue here is that you just don't understand how boys normally show their emotions. What you're seeing as "pouty" is actually how a boy expresses regret and that he is sad about leaving something behind.
 
I also thought that the moment with the White Witch was a bit silly. I am not comfortable with the way Jadis is being constantly portrayed as a vamp. That is not her characterization at all. And it should be clear to anyone who has ever read the MN or LWW.
 
What do you mean by `vamp`?
It actually looks to me that they are portraying her as an `ancient evil force`.
One that has been defeated centuries earlier but still has the ability to reach out from where it now is and influence the living!
Now, I have some reservations myself as to whether setting her up as the ultimate force of evil in Narnia is altogether a good idea but a lot of people do see her that way.

I sometimes wonder if the whole problem with this film`s characters is due to the fact that we are so familiar with how teens are `supposed` to act thanks to all the teen orientated dramas that are everywhere these days that, in a film like this where children are being portrayed as functioning in what are actually very adult roles the audience tends to misread the cues.

So the problem with Peter could be Will`s performance, Adamsons direction or it might just be the fault of the audience!
 
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Sir Tom the Dragon Knight said:
No, he said, "I think we've waited for Aslan long enough." What he means is that he doesn't think Aslan is just going to come roaring in like He does in the end times. Peter believed that this time they just had to do the best they could until Aslan shows Himself again.
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I agree, and its really the Narnians who have been sitting around waiting for Aslan for centuries, that`s been part of the problem.
Now that the horn has been blown, "help HAS come" in the shape of the Pevensies. Aslan will no doubt turn up in time, "He is not a TAME lion" after all.


I think the real issue here is that you just don't understand how boys normally show their emotions. What you're seeing as "pouty" is actually how a boy expresses regret and that he is sad about leaving something behind.
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And this happens just after Peter and Susan`s final `heart to heart` with Aslan.
So I think he is going to be just a LITTLE emotional over the fact that he is leaving Narnia, never to return.
 
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Ok, then by a strict definition of the term it WOULD apply but, Jadis being Jadis surely she would use any weapon or tactic that she had available.
Since she is dead then she can`t act directly through magic any longer, so temptation and beguilement (or straight domination through willpower!) are probably more useful.

Incidently, anyone else notice that in Dawn Treader she is using more or less the same line on Edmund as she tries on Caspian in this film!
 
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