You know its easy to criticize movie Peter when watching the film but...

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I agree that the timeline was changed, and if that had not been changed, they would not have had the character changes in Peter that they had, or they would not have been as prominent. But since they did change it and there is nothing we can do about it, why not make the best of it. I for one am going to think positive about this whole thing.

What happens is that in the film Peter goes in to the middle section of the story with those issues unresolved and he`s having to make key decisions about Narnia while trying to deal with them!
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I agree!! That was the problem, he had issues and on top of that he had to make decisions that would affect the future of an entire country while working through those issues.. Of course he is going to make some bad decisions!
Now I am not trying to justify his behavior, but I think that some of what he did is very understandable, and I can see why he did what he did.

All this about how the change of order caused such a different view of Peter is quite eye-opening. Seeing it this way, Book Peter and Movie Peter look a lot more like the same person, just shown at different points in time with slightly different circumstances.
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YES!! That is why I see BookPeter when others do not!! Because BookPeter and MoviePeter are a lot more similar than you would think, only BookPeter humbles himself earlier than MoviePeter!!

Here is where my Stargate (SciFi) geekyness comes out. The PC movie makes me think of an aternate reallity. One small thing is changed and the rest of the story changes (same main plot different way to get to it). That might be a way to help people like the movie more but I wish they had kept inline with the book more. As I have said before, it is not how Lewis wrote the Character of Peter.
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To address your first point, that is a really good way for PCMoviehaters to look at it! :) To address your second point, I believe that Peter was the same way in the book, just MoviePeter's attitude was exaggerated a little to much and his humbling himself came a little later than in the book. He DID humble himself though. That is the main thing that bugs me, that he humbled himself but no one sees that but a select few (on this forum at least).
I apologize if I seem like I am trying to push you to see what I see or seem rude in whatever I have said. :o
 
I could make a comment about your assertions on moviePeter's humility QLTV, but it would be ignored as much as I tend to ignore overly zealous defences of MoviePeter.

I think the disconnect in this thread is how people see humility and the difference between good and poor behavior and not so much the mechanics of the scenes. I for instance can only see a couple of lines that point to humbled Peter at the end of the movie and none of them are at the very end. Particularly, the one little scene when Ed is setting Peter's arm during the Duel is really the only one where he is being truely humble. Even in the scene right after the White Witch scene, to me, there is a bitterness in what Peter does. The body language is all wrong throughout much of the end scenes for the assertion of humility. The body language sours some of the sweeter moments toward the end and maybe it was just poor acting on Will's part but it is very striking to me how little his body language changes throughout the film. He seems to be paying lip-service to his changes and not totally taking them to heart. Saying "we are no longer needed here" with the expression that accompanied it made the statement feel hollow.

Tirian, many of us agree with you.
 
QueenLucyTheValient said:
To address your first point, that is a really good way for PCMoviehaters to look at it! :) To address your second point, I believe that Peter was the same way in the book, just MoviePeter's attitude was exaggerated a little to much and his humbling himself came a little later than in the book. He DID humble himself though. That is the main thing that bugs me, that he humbled himself but no one sees that but a select few (on this forum at least).
I apologize if I seem like I am trying to push you to see what I see or seem rude in whatever I have said. :o
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Yes way too exaggerated. But I thought it was more that Peter didn't believe Aslan was there than his own pride in the book. I agree with Lava though. The actors body language didn't refect the words. Words were humble body language could have been better.
 
LOok, you guys, I feel as if you are downing my opiniOn, and I do not know if yOu mean it that way, but it hurts my feelings. :( I am not stupid for seeing what I see in this movie, ya know... I get a lot of people downing my opiniOn and in case you do not know, it really hurts. I have my opinion on this and I will not change my mind, so you do not have to treat me like a lower-class citizen because of my opinion. I just feel like yall are saying that I am stupid for seeing bookpeter show through in the movie, and seeing Peter's humility. Honestly, I am not stupid for seeing that.
 
QLTV, I must say that I have not always found your responces pleasant myself. We all are very opinionated and we all tend to express our opinions very forcefully. I do not add disclaimers to my posts because they become bulky. But if you are finding some of the things hurtful I will offer to get the mods involved.

I don't think you are stupid. I think you come from a different background from me and the others that agree with me. I honestly try not to think anyone is stupid because people have decided that I should be stupid in the past. I've spent years trying to remove that label from myself with moderate success. I might have Digory's quote in mind sometimes "What do they teach in school's these days?" but that doesn't mean I think you are stupid.
 
I have to say myself that I think Will`s performance in this movie was a little `off` at times.
Could the acting and direction/editing be at the root of the whole problem?
 
Well, I think Will's acting was phenomenal in that movie.... Here is something that MissR sent to me that I figured I would post on here....

Peter gets into the fight at the train station. We’ve already discussed this.

Peter is prideful to Trumpkin, insisting that he is right. Regardless whether Trumpkin was right or wrong, he should have been polite and respectful.

When Peter’s way turns out false, he is prideful and snaps, “Shut up,” to his sister, and insists that they weren’t lost, even though it was obvious that he had made a mistake.

Caspian starts the fight later. Peter could fight back or get his head chopped off. So of course, he fought back. Still, he wasn’t particularly nice about interacting with Caspian. But I have to admit that after how he had been received, it’s not fair to criticize his behavior harshly.

Peter’s expressions exude arrogance, and he glares much more than he smiles. I got really sick of him slitting his eyes, too, and jutting his chin. He reminds me of my brother when he starts to pout. xD (My brother is eight.)

He looks disgusted when Susan sides with Caspian about the raid. But she was being such an idiot that I don’t blame him. xD

Peter receives respect and honor from the Narnians. “We have anxiously awaited you return, my liege. Our hearts and swords are at your service.” When he asks a centaur about the raid, he responds, “Or die trying, my liege.”

He demeans Lucy in front of everyone, telling her in an arrogant way that she should not be listening in as they discuss battle plans.

When Lucy asks him if he remembers who REALLY defeated the white witch, he juts out his chin and looks arrogant.

Peter refuses to pull out his troops, even though it’s too late. Caspian made a mistake. But it was Peter’s fault that his troops were trapped. He could have called them off.

“Exactly who are you doing this for, Peter?” Susan asks during the raid. So I’m not the only one who sees he’s being selfish.

You say that Peter was having trouble because the Narnians wanted him to prove himself again. No, they showed him respect. And they paid for it with their lives.

“Ask him.” Peter’s face contorts and he glares at Caspian. That was rude and unnecessary. The two of them hurl verbal insults, acting immature and childish. I literally want to jump into the screen and slap Peter’s face. Believe me, I don’t like Caspian’s behavior either, but he holds it together better.

Caspian walks away. Peter taunts him in a way that is reminiscent to people I encountered in first grade. Honestly, many of the teens in my youth group behave better than that. I was smarter than that when I was 10. Peter is a high king who has grown to full behavioral maturity, and has fought many battles. He has learned how to lose.

Caspian is the one who draws his sword first. I had forgotten this detail. He has been quite provoked, but still he is the one to blame.

The main battle scene is when book-Peter is finally allowed to shine through. I enjoyed this part because of it, although that enjoyment was tainted by Susan. -.-

For the most part, Peter is very nice when interacting with Lucy. He is gentle and kind. This doesn’t make up for how he treated Caspian, though.

Of course, at the end, I didn't think Peter was being humble at all, but we need not discuss this, since it is likely we shall both get mad...
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I find it humorous that Peter was right after all, even after he thought he was wrong... :)

I agree with her third point totally. Caspian started the fight, and Peter was just following instinct. He fought Caspian because Caspian had attacked him...
I agree about everything she said about Susan, and how she can not argue with Peter about how he handled the instances with Susan... Peter had no right to insult Lucy like that, and she had every right to say what she did. Honestly though, he had come up with a good plan, and everyone was going against it. He had every right to get a little defensive, I know I would have done the same thing...I agree that Caspian was the one to blame in the scene after the raid. Everything Peter said to Caspian was spot on... When he said "You invaded Narnia, you have no more right to rule it then Miraz does." he is SO spot!!! It makes you think........I disagree that Peter was not humble at the end, because he was, but I will not get into that as it might provoke everyone who seems to enjoy insulting my opinion....
 
"Everything Peter said to Caspian was spot on... When he said "You invaded Narnia, you have no more right to rule it then Miraz does." he is SO spot!!!"

Actually, QueenLucy, this comment is exactly the wrong thing to say. Yes, Peter had the right to take Caspian to task--privately--for ruining the raid. Of course Peter had his own hand in that failed mission.

However, when Peter goes on to blame Caspian's ancestors for invading Narnia and tells him that he has no right to Narnia's throne, when the reason the Pevensies were sent to Narnia was to put Caspian on the throne, that was absolutely wrong. Caspian had every right to the throne of Narnia. Miraz had none.

MrBob
 
Good point, MrBob, and I agree.

QLTV, I do not see anything here that especially seems to indicate anyone is dissing you personally or finds you personally stupid. As far as I can see, everyone is just expressing their opinion and backing it up with what they see in the movie.

Everyone has a different opinon of what humility is, what acceptable behavior is, what they saw in the way Peter behaved ... no one is 100% right or wrong, and we don't have to agree to be civil. As far as I can see:

No one thinks I am stupid for believing film Peter to be a whiny baby, and
No one thinks QLTV is stupid for thinking film Peter was in the right.

If anyone does have any such ideas, please keep them to yourself. We're allowed to diss the movie and even diss another person's opinion, but absolutely not allowed to disrespect each other.

Got it? Thanks.
 
However, when Peter goes on to blame Caspian's ancestors for invading Narnia and tells him that he has no right to Narnia's throne, when the reason the Pevensies were sent to Narnia was to put Caspian on the throne, that was absolutely wrong. Caspian had every right to the throne of Narnia. Miraz had none.
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I`m not sure how they are supposed to know this, after all apart from Lucy`s `dream` they havn`t actually seen Aslan at that point.
As far as they are concerned Narnia HAS already four ruling monarchs present, them!
They actually treat Caspian very well, including him in the decision making as if he was one of them. Probably because he`s been leading the Narnians before they arrived and because of respect for his rank as a Telmarine prince.
They don`t actuallly have to.
 
MrBob said:
"Everything Peter said to Caspian was spot on... When he said "You invaded Narnia, you have no more right to rule it then Miraz does." he is SO spot!!!"

Actually, QueenLucy, this comment is exactly the wrong thing to say. Yes, Peter had the right to take Caspian to task--privately--for ruining the raid. Of course Peter had his own hand in that failed mission.

However, when Peter goes on to blame Caspian's ancestors for invading Narnia and tells him that he has no right to Narnia's throne, when the reason the Pevensies were sent to Narnia was to put Caspian on the throne, that was absolutely wrong. Caspian had every right to the throne of Narnia. Miraz had none.

MrBob
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So, I've been following this thread recently and I thought I would pop a comment in. I partly agree with both of you... I belive that Peter, in the movie, was not so terrible. But in regards to Peter saying that Caspian had no right to rule, I agree with MrBob. Peter should have recognized that they were to help Caspian to overcome the obstacles so he could become king, because ASLAN wanted that. It doesnt matter what Peter thinks concerning Caspian being king because however Aslan plans it is whatever is best for Narnia, the Pevensies, and everyone concerned.
 
TheWoodBetweenTheWorlds said:
So, I've been following this thread recently and I thought I would pop a comment in. I partly agree with both of you... I belive that Peter, in the movie, was not so terrible. But in regards to Peter saying that Caspian had no right to rule, I agree with MrBob. Peter should have recognized that they were to help Caspian to overcome the obstacles so he could become king, because ASLAN wanted that. It doesnt matter what Peter thinks concerning Caspian being king because however Aslan plans it is whatever is best for Narnia, the Pevensies, and everyone concerned.
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Well, RSS and I were talking, and when we got to that point, we were talking about how the Telmarines invaded Narnia, and until it was clear that that was what Aslan wanted them to do, Caspian did have no right to rule. Peter, Susan, Edmund, and Lucy were the only ones there who had been given the right, by Aslan, to rule. Caspian was an outsider and an invader. His authority was not clearly shown until Aslan himself says so in the end. Do you think that Peter should have been perfect? He could not have known that that was what Aslan wanted of him!! He could obviously not read Aslans mind, and Aslan had never told him what he wanted of him, so he had no idea that that was what was going on...


I am not sure if that was exactly what we were agreeing on, but it was something like that, and if I remember what exactly it was, I will post that on here.. :)
 
"I`m not sure how they are supposed to know this, after all apart from Lucy`s `dream` they havn`t actually seen Aslan at that point...They actually treat Caspian very well, including him in the decision making as if he was one of them. Probably because he`s been leading the Narnians before they arrived"

Asbel, I will give you the idea that they may not have specifically known that they were there on Aslan's mission to put Caspian on his rightful throne, but they were on the side of the Narnians and therefore, they had the responsibility to support him as the leader. The alternatives were to not help (which would have been pointless as they had been sent to Narnia), side with Miraz (which would mean abandoning the Narnians which would have been completely against everything they stood for), or lead the resostance for themselves (which would not have worked as they have so little knowledge of what is going on).

MrBob
 
:confused:
QueenLucyTheValient said:
Well, RSS and I were talking, and when we got to that point, we were talking about how the Telmarines invaded Narnia, and until it was clear that that was what Aslan wanted them to do, Caspian did have no right to rule. Peter, Susan, Edmund, and Lucy were the only ones there who had been given the right, by Aslan, to rule. Caspian was an outsider and an invader. His authority was not clearly shown until Aslan himself says so in the end. Do you think that Peter should have been perfect? He could not have known that that was what Aslan wanted of him!! He could obviously not read Aslans mind, and Aslan had never told him what he wanted of him, so he had no idea that that was what was going on...


I am not sure if that was exactly what we were agreeing on, but it was something like that, and if I remember what exactly it was, I will post that on here.. :)
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Well I think that the Pevensies didnt nessisarily need it to be made clear or whatever that Aslan wanted it to happen. Dont they know by now that EVERYTHING happens because Aslan wanted it to??
 
Even in the book, the Pevensies didn't have a revelation from Aslan that they should support Caspian. But they had the facts:

* Miraz was hostile to "Old Narnia"
* Caspian embraced "Old Narnia"
* Old Narnians had embraced Caspian and wanted him to rule
* Narnia was never "right" unless a human was on the throne
* They knew they would not be staying to rule if their previous experience was true

As MrBob points out, they did not have an option not to support Caspian unless they wanted to shove him aside and act as if they would be staying, which their previous experience had taught them was not the case, and which would be ridiculous considering Caspian had the loyalty of the Old Narnians.

Peter in the book knew his duty; Peter in the film was unsure and considered Caspian a rival.
 
You repeat so many messages, inky :confused:

"They knew they would not be staying to rule if their previous experience was true"

That was the one thing that they did not know. The last time the Pevensies were in Narnia, they stayed for 15-45 years. Mind you, they were the ones who were prophesized to lead Narnia.

MrBob
 
MrBob said:
You repeat so many messages, inky :confused:
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I know! I made a thread about it over in Duffers "Look at Me! Look at Me!"

I don't know why it happens, and I try to go back and delete one if I see it, but I don't catch them all. Usually if you try to post the same message twice, the system stops you, but somehow I am slipping under the radar. Must be my Jedi powers.

Sorry! My apologies! I will try to keep deleting them as I see them ... :p
 
Okay, so something else RSS and I had talked about was the fact that ya'll say that you would have acted so much better than Peter did if you were in his place, but we, as sinful human beings, say that, but then, when it comes down to it, and you are faced with the situation, you do exactly what you said you would not, because in the heat of the moment, you forgot about what you were going to do and acted on impulse.. An example would be this: a lot of people (I myself included) have, at times, said that in Adam and Eve's place, they would not have eaten the fruit, but, in their situation, I can assure you that we would have done the same thing. We as human beings are not perfect, and you seem to think that MoviePeter should have been, and nobody can be. Not even BookPeter was perfect!!

Another thing is this. Here is the exact lines from the scene after the raid. I have put in bold letters what I want you to see.
Lucy Pevensie: What happened?
Peter Pevensie: Ask him.
Susan Pevensie: Peter!
Prince Caspian: Me? You could have called it off, there was still time.
Peter Pevensie: No there wasn't thanks to you. If you had kept to the plan those soldiers might be alive right now.
Prince Caspian: And if you just had stayed here as I suggested they definitely would be!
Peter Pevensie: You called us, remember?
Prince Caspian: My first mistake.
Peter Pevensie: No. Your first mistake was thinking you could lead these people
Peter Pevensie: [turns around and begins to walk off]
Prince Caspian: Hey!
Peter Pevensie: [Peter turns to look at him]
Prince Caspian: I am not the one who abandoned Narnia.
Peter Pevensie: You invaded Narnia. You have no more right leading than Miraz does.
[Caspian pushes past Peter]
Peter Pevensie: You, him, your father! Narnia's better off without the lot of you!
[Caspian and Peter draw swords intending to attack each other]
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Note that Peter was just going to leave it alone after he had said what he said before the bolded statement, but CASPIAN called him back, forcing him to defend himself...
 
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