Are the Emerald Witch and the White Witch the same person.

I find it interesting that there is no mention of the Emerald Witch having a pallid white face. You think the children would notice that right off, wouldn't you?
 
EveningStar said:
I find it interesting that there is no mention of the Emerald Witch having a pallid white face. You think the children would notice that right off, wouldn't you?
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But of course - she didn't necessarily have to take the same form as when she was the White Witch. We know Jadis had the power to change her shape.
 
waterhogboy said:
But of course - she didn't necessarily have to take the same form as when she was the White Witch. We know Jadis had the power to change her shape.
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She did? I'm not remembering her changing shapes ...

But the idea that Lewis wanted us to realize they were the same person -- he could have at least made her snow white, so dummies like me would get it ...
 
She didn't seem to have innate power to shape-shift, like the Emerald Witch did. What she was able to do was masquerade her appearance and that of others, using her wand. She did this to herself and her dwarf when Aslan's troops rescued Edmund. (in the book).
 
PrinceOfTheWest said:
She didn't seem to have innate power to shape-shift, like the Emerald Witch did. What she was able to do was masquerade her appearance and that of others, using her wand. She did this to herself and her dwarf when Aslan's troops rescued Edmund. (in the book).
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I forgot about that. Yah, that seems a pretty different talent from, say, turning yourself into a huge hissing snake and fighting your attackers off.
 
For that matter, that whole shape-shifting trick is unique in the Narnian narrative - I can't think of any other being in the Narnian universe who could do that (not even Jadis :p ). And Lewis wasn't given to flashy displays of magic like that.
 
Waterhogboy, I agree with you entirely--there's evidence either way but nothing conclusive.

inkspot said:
She did? I'm not remembering her changing shapes ...

But the idea that Lewis wanted us to realize they were the same person -- he could have at least made her snow white, so dummies like me would get it ...
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That's actually one of the things that makes it more plausible to me--Jadis can't change her shape at all (that we see); her magic is, like, brute force. The White Witch can disguise herself. And the Green Lady can do full transformations. So that suggests to me that a) Jadis was doing a lot of learning in Narnia and b) there's a possibility for some sort of learning curve.

And I'm not sure that textual evidence to support a theory necessarily means the author intended readers to realize it. Maybe he didn't think it was important; maybe he didn't mean it; maybe he forgot. (Authorial intent isn't really important anyway.)
 
Hm... I was thinking that we were trying to figure out whether or not Lewis meant the two to be the same--or was that what you meant by authorial intent?

I like your observation on the transformations! Very interesting indeed...
 
kilendil said:
I searched for connections after that, and the only one I found was that when Jill and Eustace and Rilian break through into Narnia it's winter, the same season the White Witch preferred. My theory on why winter was so essential to the White Witch is because the silver apple tree doesn't bear fruit in the winter, which fruit is "a horror to her." If this is the case with the Emerald Witch as well, then it is either because 1. she is the White Witch or 2. she also ate an apple from the garden.
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Thats a REALLY good point. I didnt even think of that.

Animus Wyrmis said:
Jadis can't change her shape at all (that we see)
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Actually she can. Remember when she turned into a boulder, and made Gninnabrik look like a tree stump.
 
She just made them look like inanimat object for a few minutes (as previously noted); a far cry from becoming a mammoth snake and attacking people.

That said: only what's in the books can be considered canon, but I think we can take authorial intent into account when broaching a theory as radical as this one. CSL certainly did not seem to be trying to make it obvious that the two were the same.
 
The only reason why he mentioned that they seemed to be similar was a form of shorthand to the reader that she posed a similar threat.

Matter of fact, it used to be studio policy at Republic Pictures to always have the villain in a western serial wear a black hat. The kids that flocked to see it each week always caught on more easily to the plot.

By comparing her to the white witch, people can size up the Emerald Witch rather quickly and realize that she's not going to fall for the old gag, "Your shoes are untied!" or "Look, a flying saucer!"
 
Josh said:
Actually she can. Remember when she turned into a boulder, and made Gninnabrik look like a tree stump.
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I think AW was using 'Jadis' to make a distinction between Jadis in the MN, and the White Witch (Jadis) in the LWW. So the progression is--MN, no transformation--LWW, clumsy transformation--SC, smooth transformation.
 
I wonder if the new Silver Chair film (if it gets made) will adress this. What if the director decides to interpret that they are the same?
 
Animus Wyrmis said:
I am all for textual evidence, but let's be clear. LWW says:



That supports a lot of interpretations, but nowhere does it say Aslan ripped her throat out, or bit her head off, or anything else.

And to be a bit of canon stickler, all we know for sure is that Rilian tells us the story of the verse, which he says he learned from the Green Lady. We don't know that he's telling the truth; we don't know that she told all/any of what she knew; we don't know that what she told was right to begin with. (That is, he could be lying, she could be lying, or someone could be mistaken.)



Wait, what? Sorry, I'm just really confused by this statement. Are you saying there weren't humans in Narnia? Or that hags are human? Or...what, exactly?
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I was saying that there are probably no humans in northern Narnia, where the Green Witch established her domain. It would be possible for her to have someone abducted, but it's unlikely.

And with the throat thing, I was going mainly off the movie, where we see Aslan come down with with his teeth bared.
 
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I think rather than take such a chance they'll be chicken and hire a different actress.

I think there are only four words Tilda Swinson could utter that would get her the job as the Emerald Witch. "I...have...the...NEGATIVES!"

(I know what sway that can hold over someone. And no, Joytones, that's not me in the picture. That's some other badger from the back stealing those cookies!)
 
Josh said:
I wonder if the new Silver Chair film (if it gets made) will adress this. What if the director decides to interpret that they are the same?
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I'll throw my popcorn at the screen if they cast Tilda and she plays LGK anything like she played Jadis. Even if one chooses to assume they have the same body, their personality is still vastly different.
 
They wouldn't dare, after them showing Edmund smash the White Witch in the ice wall in Aslan's How. I mean, really....
 
MRW said:
I'll throw my popcorn at the screen if they cast Tilda and she plays LGK anything like she played Jadis. Even if one chooses to assume they have the same body, their personality is still vastly different.
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Well if they cast Tilda it would defeat teh purpose. The Emerald Witch, if you think they are the same, is Jadis in a different form. There appearence is differnt. They will most likely cast someone different. Besides, I don't think Tilda can play the role of a seductress very well.
 
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