Caspian/ Ramandu's daughter...
- Thread starter Sven-El
- Start date
no book, even a most beloved one, has ever stopped the moviemakers from re-imagining (and inevitably ruin) a great story.
Elentari
New member
Too true, too true...Sigh. Hence all the stupid movies we have based on really good books.
Sven-El
Well-known member
I would like to point out that it is impossible for any film to ever be anything like the books it was based off. Look at say the Ten commandments, great movie, but is it as good as Moses' story from the Bible. Not in a long shot. Even the BBC Narnia films are pale in comaprison to Lewis's text and for one reason .When we read the books ,not only is Lewis's imagination at work, but ours is running with it suplying our own differences.
For example I think if every one here at the Dancing Lawn were to sit down and write what they thought Lucy Pevensie looked like I think there would be a good number of differences, aside from the blue eyes and blonde hair. How ever does Georgie Henley as Lucy "act" like how we imagined her? Well from this fans' perspective, I'm so amazed by her performance that I forget what she looks like. Because her portrayal is exactly how I imagine her. And I am sure very oen here can find wonderful things to say about her. ( save, she's not blonde...)
That is going to be the real trick for them, with Caspian and Ramandu's Daughter, is not necissarily what they did with Susan ( it was her kissing him and there was even this sort of awkwardness he had around her.)but more simply making things between Caspian and R's daughter seem as "real" as possible .Argueably a huge strength of these films is that the four Pevensies seem like "real" siblings and not "The Brady Bunch Kids go to Narnia." I think it could be possible to play out the love between him and R's daughter, in realistic manner, especailly in the hands of Michael Apted.
It's just a matter of finding the right actress. I'd also say they should have Ben barnes and the actress playing R's daughter spend some time together prior to filming so they can get the right "chemistry" between them, much like what they did for the Pevensies when they were cast in their roles.
It should also be pointed out that the "romance" between Caspian and Susan seemed a bit awkward and for good reason. I've read many times that Ben Barnes did not like the idea as he loved the books adn felt it was a huge departure and tried to get it cut out. ( hmm, let's see the actor doesn't like it, chances are Douglas Gresham didn't like it and the fans didn't like it. Actually as I read in PC's visual companion the most knowledgable among the cyoung actors of all things Narnia is Georgie. Hmmm, maybe she should have been the creative consultant along with Douglas Gresham!)
Elentari
New member
Did Anna like it?
The BBC version pales because the acting and technology was NOT comparable to what Walden/Disney has at its disposal. With the technology and talent, Walden should have no problem transporting us to Narnia--and they have proven twice that in APPEARANCE their Narnia is PERFECT. It's just the script that needs attention.
The BBC version pales because the acting and technology was NOT comparable to what Walden/Disney has at its disposal. With the technology and talent, Walden should have no problem transporting us to Narnia--and they have proven twice that in APPEARANCE their Narnia is PERFECT. It's just the script that needs attention.
~Lava~
Well-known member
Nope, Anna was with Ben in his effort to get it cut out of the film. They managed to get half of it cut out of the film; they just couldn't get the awful kiss out. I am sure Anna did not mind kissing Ben and he did not mind kissing her, but they did not like it in the context of the Narnia books and campaigned against it.
Alambil and Tarvis
New member
Ah, that is why I love the Narnia actors. They are SOO faithful to the books. Unlike some of those Harry Potter people *shudder*
~Lava~
Well-known member
Off topic: You are talking of a one Daniel Ratcliff, are you not? 'Tis an awful shame about his recent career choices.
Back on topic: I will restate a opinion that I said early on in this discussion, in dealing with the problems that Adamson caused, as little said about them as possible is the way to go. Probably, a little shot with the Pevensies catching Caspian up on the goings-on of their older brother and sister where they state that Susan has become very worldly. Show Caspian saddened at the problems in Susan's life but show no token of former regard.
Caspian/Stargirl's romance ought to just flow in a calm and respectable but very deep love.
Back on topic: I will restate a opinion that I said early on in this discussion, in dealing with the problems that Adamson caused, as little said about them as possible is the way to go. Probably, a little shot with the Pevensies catching Caspian up on the goings-on of their older brother and sister where they state that Susan has become very worldly. Show Caspian saddened at the problems in Susan's life but show no token of former regard.
Caspian/Stargirl's romance ought to just flow in a calm and respectable but very deep love.
Sven-El
Well-known member
Thanks Lava, I was just about to respond to that myself .Actually it is perhaps the fact they did NOT like the idea that caused the whole Caspian/Susan thing to feel stiff and rigid.
I highly agree with your other poitn about how to deal with the PC "problems" in VOTD. Having Edmudn adn Lucy mention Susan's spiritual satte would "seal the deal" that it is as Mr. Beaver said, ' over and done" between them.
I also agree with what you say for the relationship between Caspiana dn Star Girl.
NarnianPrincess
New member
A wonderful point goes to Jonathan! Well said, sir, very well said indeed!
(Although, I dont' care how she acts, Lindsey Lohan CANNOT be the Princess!)
EXACTLY!
LOL that sounds like a good idea!!! Now we shall just have to make the non-Narnia people listen to them!!!
Alambil and Tarvis
New member
No, I was talking about the HP actors in general...did you know that Katie Leung apparently only tried out for Cho b/c her dad promised her a shopping spree or something if she did? I dunno, that's what my friend said, and she's a HUGE HP fan. I think the only person in the cast who's absolutely in love with the books is Evanna Lynch, which explains why her portrayal of Luna Lovegood was so amazing and why she was the best part of the OOTP movie.
Anyhoo, back to the topic--I totally agree with you.
TimmyofOz
Well-known member
I still feel there should have been a more King Author type chivalry of a brave knight and a fair madian between Susan and Capian in the movie. Because in VDT Lucy make a point that Caspian had made a promise to Ramandu's daughter to return to her. I know Lucy was jealous of Susan in the book, but she is too sweet to not have mixed feeling about encouraging Caspian to return to another women and not being faithful to Susan. This could have all been avoided by dropping the Kiss.
Last edited:
Alambil and Tarvis
New member
Exactly, Timmy. But, it's already happened. So...hopefully Stephen Knight will find a clever way to work around it in the script
Sven-El
Well-known member
Not necissairly. Keep in mind by this point Susan should be loosing her faith and seasing to be a friend of Narnia. Lucy will also know that Susan cannot come back to Narnia. While she may be faithful to her sister, wouldn't she want Caspian to move on when she knows her sister can never go back to him? Caspian also can not come to our world either so the relationship is pretty much dead. Caspian will need a queen for many reasons which include some one giveing him an heir to the throne of Narnia. She also knows that time passes differently in Narnia. It will be three years later afterall, and Caspian will have had many kings trying to marry their daughters to him. Lucy may be sweet, but she is not so shallow to see these things. She's a smart cookie, that Lucy Pevensie, a very smart cookie. I think if anything her concern for them both woudl be firstf or her sister's soul and second that Caspian do what Aslan has called him to do.
And now, at risk of sounding like the Star Wars fans who argue over whether Han shot Greedo first... " SUSAN KISSED FIRST!"
I can see the whoel mater being resolved like this.
Caspian; And your brother, how is he faring.
Lucy: Quite well, your majesty.
Caspian: Please, Lucy, we are all old friends. No need for courtly titles. Just Caspian is fine.
Edmund: Well, Caspian are brother is doing well, he is studying with a professor friend of ours.
Caspian: If this professor is anything like Dr Cornelius, then I can only hope that Peter's studies are going well. And Susan, how is your lovely sister doing?
Lucy: (sighs both out of pain of hearing yet again how lovely Susan is, and what is becoming of her sister.) : It is best left unsaid, Caspian.
Then later add this to his wanting to sail away and leave R's daughter. ( remember, it is suggested in the books by Edmund that they tie up Caspian, like Ulysses with the Sirens.)
Caspian; But maybe I'll find Susan!
Edmund: No! ( shakes him) For your sake Caspian, it is best to leave Susan in the past, where she belongs. Return to Ramandu's daughter, as you promised. Then return to your people.
Caspian: But...
Lucy: Caspian, Narnia needs a king, but it will also need a queen in time, and with that, a royal family. You will not live forever, you know this and you also know Susan can never be your queen. Do you want Narnia to fall under the same fate it did under your uncle? Or worse? What if some one like Jadis were to try to come to power? ( a bit of a nod to what will happen in Silver Chair and the Green Lady)
Caspian: Trumpkin can rule.
Edmund: Only a Son of Adam can rule Narnia and Aslan chose you for this task.
Caspian walks off to his room. Later he comes from his room and says that Aslan spoke to him, privately of course.
Last edited:
~Lava~
Well-known member
I would rather think that Caspian is ashamed of his behavior towards Susan. Three years as King of Narnia would have gone far to teach him of the real Chivalry that he could not learn as heir of the late Miraz, no references to her beauty, showing no more concern for Susan than as a royal sister (he'd treat her like he does with Lucy if she was there). No painful moment when he digs at Lucy's jealousy by calling her beautiful; just an "oh" moment and some sadness (for the sake of her soul) as Lucy (or Ed) discribes Su's behavior at school and her dratted flirting with Mr. Geek from across the road.
Animus Wyrmis
New member
I'm still not sure why there should be any mention of Susan at all, or why Caspian should still care. They kissed, once, in the midst of what Susan knew (and Caspian soon realized) would be goodbye forever. Susan, at least, certainly had more intense romances than this (she did almost decide to marry Rabadash, after all!); in three years' time, Caspian has probably flirted and possibly fallen for girls, or had them fall for him (who was that girl in VotDT? Squinted, had freckles?). We don't even have to mention the kiss, I wouldn't think--or Eustace can say "Isn't he the one you said your sister kissed?" and Lucy and Edmund can say something along the lines of "Yes, and?" and "Why were you listening in anyway?"
On a side note, do we have any knowledge of when exactly Susan starts to stop believing? I know people tend to place it as VotDT-ish, but that's barely a year after PC. I think the official timeline places TLB about siz years after SC, which seems ridiculous to me, but I'd hate to think Susan started forgetting so soon. :/
On a side note, do we have any knowledge of when exactly Susan starts to stop believing? I know people tend to place it as VotDT-ish, but that's barely a year after PC. I think the official timeline places TLB about siz years after SC, which seems ridiculous to me, but I'd hate to think Susan started forgetting so soon. :/
~Lava~
Well-known member
She stops believing the first time after LWW (the whole singsong voice quote in PC shows this). She has almost a whole years worth of Screwtape's doses of "reality" intervening between PC and VotDT. I would probably mark the end of her belief in Narnia at about the same time as the end of her trip to America.
As to your comments about the Susapian kiss, my whole point is that they ought to show that neither hold each other as persons of interest in the love department. They almost have to because it would make Caspian look fickle if he suddenly went from loving Susan to loving Ramandu's Daughter in the audience's mind.
As to your comments about the Susapian kiss, my whole point is that they ought to show that neither hold each other as persons of interest in the love department. They almost have to because it would make Caspian look fickle if he suddenly went from loving Susan to loving Ramandu's Daughter in the audience's mind.