Caspian/ Ramandu's daughter...

Alambil and Tarvis said:
C.S. LEWIS AND J.R.R. TOLKIEN were greatly influenced by him. A lot of their philosophy is based in part upon his philosophy. So...yeah. Without Chesterton, we probably wouldn't have Narnia. :D
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I bet he became a philosopher because he couldn't get fun part of fun-filled anctics of some Curly-like person. I don't think he understood it. So you could also say that without Curly, there wouldn't be any Chesterton.

~Lava~ said:
Yes, back at Ramandu's Island, Caspian is honorably courting his true Love.
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Back on topic. Somehow I cannot picture this PC (Barnes) acting honorably after I saw him lusting for Susan.
 
I did not see him do anything improper towards Susan, at least not until after he kissed back. I feel that with an older, more grounded director this time, we will see more of the beauties of Courting and less of the petulant "being in love" stuff that we saw in PC. That is why I am so happy that Michael Apted is now the director.
 
You cannot truly "love" someone in less than three days. Usually that kind of attraction is out of lust, not true love. But anyway, it will be hard for me to see Caspian in a relationship again after what they did to him in PC
 
I agree w/ Lava. I don't think he was lusting after Susan. The kiss itself I think was more to explore Susan's character decline. Anyhoo...about falling in love after 3 days...well, I never understood it either, but I don't think he completely fell in love w/ her. On the Narnia timeline in the special edition book (which contains all 7 books), it says that Caspian marries Ramandu's daughter 3-4 years after he meets her. Which means he was obviously interested her upon meeting her, but that didn't mean it had amounted to full-blown love yet. But my opinion is, since she IS the daughter of a star, she has a quality to her that makes her mysterious, somewhat more than human and perhaps having a closer, timeless connection to Aslan because of that special heritage (Ramandu has been around since like, the beginning of Narnia or something). I dunno...I just think Caspian maybe had a sense of that otherworldly quality. It says in the book that once they all saw her, it was as if they'd never known beauty before--and I think Lewis was trying to use her extraordinary physical beauty and her ethereal and mysterious origin to symbolize that her outward beauty reflects her inner purity. As Ramandu says to Eustace, there is a difference between what a star is and what it is made of, and the line might in fact point to his daughter as well.
 
That is why I am very suspicious of that timeline, if it is indeed Lewis-originated then it would mean that they spent three or four years at Ramandu's Island. The reason I say this is because Lewis makes it clear in the last paragraph of Dawn Treader that Caspian marries Ramandu's Daughter and then they went home to Narnia. Otherwise Lewis would have said "They went back to Narnia and then Caspian married Ramandu's daughter. I cannot think that Caspian would have brought Ramandu's Daughter back with him if he were not married.
 
Well, he might have done. Like Isaac and Rebekah in the Old Testament; she had to leave her home and her father's house to come and marry Isaac, and it was all done very properly. I don't see any way Caspian could have stayed 3-4 years on the island. He had Aslan's blessing to search for teh seven lords for a year and a day -- staying away longer would have been a bad idea.
 
Yes, but why would he if he could be married by a star and banquet afterwards at Aslan's Table. Why would he wait to get back home to marry her if it meant that he would have to be on the same (small) boat with the woman he loved and yet bound by decency not to interact with her in a very romantic way? Logic tells me that if he loved her enough to bring her home with him (and she loved him enough to consent to the trip) then it is highly likely that he and she would have married at the beautiful magic Island that brought them together in the presence of her magnificent father, Ramandu the Star.
 
Agreed. Ya just gotta wonder how much time he could spend there, to court her ... with Narnia waiting for his return.
 
I think this is just another one of those things where you have to remember that Narnia isn't real life, it wasn't written to be like real life, and there are some things that can just happen in Narnia that maybe couldn't here on Earth. ;) This little bit of VDT has a very fairy-tale flavor. I think that the moviemakers would do well to follow along the same line.
 
~Lava~ said:
I would tend to agree with this case being pretty much love at first sight.
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and as much as i don't go for LOVE AT FIRST SIGHT. it amuses me to think that this could be the very case. but i'm sure, Caspian had made sure he would really get to know her first. "True love is based on knowledge." :)


SweetWaters said:
This little bit of VDT has a very fairy-tale flavor.
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:p i agree. let us remember that Lewis had children in mind when writing the Narnia stories so, i guess he did not bother to complicate things. :)
 
Alambil and Tarvis said:
Anyhoo...about falling in love after 3 days...well, I never understood it either, but I don't think he completely fell in love w/ her.
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That's what I said. You cannot "love" as in "LOVE" someone you don't know anything about. That's why I disagree with the statement quoted below.
You have to know someone or at least know a lot about someone to be able to truly love that person. Wanting someone after you meet them is purely a lustful desire not love. With love, you must have the other person's well being in mind, not yours. When you desire someone as soon as you meet him/her, you want YOUR needs met, not the other person's.

And that's what happened in PC with Susan and Caspian. That's why it's hard for me to see Caspian in an honorable relationship now with Ramandu's daughter. I do hope though, that somehow they manage to overcome that problem.

~Lava~ said:
I would tend to agree with this case being pretty much love at first sight.
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Like I said, I disagree.
 
BarbarianKing said:
That's what I said. You cannot "love" as in "LOVE" someone you don't know anything about. That's why I disagree with the statement quoted below.
You have to know someone or at least know a lot about someone to be able to truly love that person. Wanting someone after you meet them is purely a lustful desire not love. With love, you must have the other person's well being in mind, not yours. When you desire someone as soon as you meet him/her, you want YOUR needs met, not the other person's.

And that's what happened in PC with Susan and Caspian. That's why it's hard for me to see Caspian in an honorable relationship now with Ramandu's daughter. I do hope though, that somehow they manage to overcome that problem.
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True.. so maybe it just started out as a little attraction.. :p a "crush" :D

and then the "get-to-knowing" process began..

like i said, "True LOVE is based on knowledge":)
 
Now it is my turn to disagree with you guys; I have good grounds for it too.

Lewis was writing the Narnia series as a fantasy and a fairy-tale thus the Fairy-tale concept of "true love" at first sight definitely can and does apply. Narnia is a land where things exist that never could here.
 
Lava: I don't have a problem with the Caspian/Stargirl romance as written by CS Lewis. That romance seemed very proper and honorable. The lustful desires I was talking about is between Caspian/Susan as shown on the movie PC. It seemed so not natural and improper.
 
To me it seemed natural for a 1940's schoolgirl, They needn't have made Caspian go so google-eyed about her. What was completely unnatural was that Susan forced herself upon him at the end; for a 1940's Schoolgirl, the guy was supposed to make the first move. Susan, admittedly, was not the best at choosing the guys she "crushed" on, she allowed Rabadash to court her despite knowing the Calormen was not always friendly toward Narnia, but the ettiquette of her day would have been to wait on the guy to kiss her and then haul off and smack him for it. This is why I am so happy that an older man is now the director, he would know that better than Adamson seemed too.

I still think that since we are supposed to be talking about Caspian's Romance and eventual marriage of Ramandu's Daughter that you ought to have at least specified that you were talking about Susaspian. I believe that Caspian really did fall for (excuse the modern lingo) Stargirl while he was at the island the first time.

In terms of how Apted ought to handle the mistakes of PC, either he ought have the Pevensies talking about Peter and Susan while on the boat or he could start out with them in England with the trip home from school (Peter acting very honorably and Susan acting very silly). I think that talking about Susan and Peter on the boat would be the most acceptable.
 
~Lava~ said:
To me it seemed natural for a 1940's schoolgirl, They needn't have made Caspian go so google-eyed about her. What was completely unnatural was that Susan forced herself upon him at the end; for a 1940's Schoolgirl, the guy was supposed to make the first move. Susan, admittedly, was not the best at choosing the guys she "crushed" on, she allowed Rabadash to court her despite knowing the Calormen was not always friendly toward Narnia, but the ettiquette of her day would have been to wait on the guy to kiss her and then haul off and smack him for it. This is why I am so happy that an older man is now the director, he would know that better than Adamson seemed too.

I still think that since we are supposed to be talking about Caspian's Romance and eventual marriage of Ramandu's Daughter that you ought to have at least specified that you were talking about Susaspian. I believe that Caspian really did fall for (excuse the modern lingo) Stargirl while he was at the island the first time.

In terms of how Apted ought to handle the mistakes of PC, either he ought have the Pevensies talking about Peter and Susan while on the boat or he could start out with them in England with the trip home from school (Peter acting very honorably and Susan acting very silly). I think that talking about Susan and Peter on the boat would be the most acceptable.
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I agree with Lava :D Although...for the kiss...*sigh* this is about the millionth time I've said this. I honestly don't think the kiss pointed out anything specific/bad (ie "lusting") about Caspian's character. The entire thing was orchestrated by Susan, and given the presence of that random geeky boy at the beginning...well, I honestly think the whole "romance" was to showcase Susan's...how do I say this? Materialism? Superficiality? Because she chooses a prince over a mere schoolboy (note how she treats the poor guy in comparison to how she treats Caspian). So I really don't think it had anything to do with Caspian at all, really. And you don't have to be lusting after someone to have a crush on him/her. It's perfectly normal to like someone like that upon seeing them...I'm not saying it's love, though. But we all have crushes. I mean, come on, look at all the Willianites, Skandarnites, & Benonites! :p LOL
 
inkspot said:
Agreed. Ya just gotta wonder how much time he could spend there, to court her ... with Narnia waiting for his return.
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Hmmm, maybe Aslan did for the same thing Caspian and Ramandu's daughter that God did for Joshua and had the sun stand still.

OR Alsan did what Athena did for Odysseus and Penelope upon his return to Ithaca and the punishing of the suitors in the Odyssey and had the whole day he was there last three years ( though for Odysseus it was just the night lasting 24 hours).

The other option: the story fo Sleeping beauty the fairies put everyone asleep for 100 years untill the prince came to wake her. So Aslan put all of Narnia and the whole world save Ramandu's island asleep for three years till Caspian could return.

forth option the Beren and Luthien effect. He did fall in love with her upon first meeting as she is not human. Caspian finishing the end of this voyage is simialr to Beren retreiving the Silmaril's. It's his way fo showing he's worthy of the princess.

Fifth he found out they were compatable on E-Harmony or Match.com.:D


Or... I'm just overthinking this waaaaaaaay to much.
 
Alambil and Tarvis said:
I agree with Lava :D Although...for the kiss...*sigh* this is about the millionth time I've said this. I honestly don't think the kiss pointed out anything specific/bad (ie "lusting") about Caspian's character. The entire thing was orchestrated by Susan, and given the presence of that random geeky boy at the beginning...well, I honestly think the whole "romance" was to showcase Susan's...how do I say this? Materialism? Superficiality? Because she chooses a prince over a mere schoolboy (note how she treats the poor guy in comparison to how she treats Caspian). So I really don't think it had anything to do with Caspian at all, really. And you don't have to be lusting after someone to have a crush on him/her. It's perfectly normal to like someone like that upon seeing them...I'm not saying it's love, though. But we all have crushes. I mean, come on, look at all the Willianites, Skandarnites, & Benonites! :p LOL
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I agree with Alambil and Tarva about the kiss, the reason why is this: "'Yet you may kiss the maiden who is willing, but take no more than a kiss, unless it is a ring....' (Quote from "Sir Percivale of Wales" in King Arthur and His Knights of the Round Table by Roger Lancelyn Green (I believe he took it from La Morte da Arthur at any rate it was from research into the legends) It was Percivale's Mother's parting injunction.)" The story goes on to say that Percivale took his mother's advice with the first beautiful maiden he saw and that he did so on the lips. I never thought of the part about her superficially choosing a prince over the geeky guy, but yes, it fits in.

inkspot said:
LOL! :)

I like the Beren and Luthien option.
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I also like the Beren and Luthien idea, and perhaps the because of them, Lewis felt he did not need to describe Caspian and Stargirl's love.
 
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